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  • Driverless Cars

    Driverless cars might not recognize motorcycles.

  • #2
    Driverless motorcycles won't care.

    Comment


    • #3
      No problem. If a driverless car hits a driverless motorcycle, the car's computer can just automatically turn on the windshield wiper.

      Seriously, though, as an ex-developer of driverless aircraft software, I can tell you that modern pattern matching software can be programmed to detect anything you care about such as motorcycles, bicycles, a pedestrian, a bouncing ball from a nearby child, etc. It's just a matter of how smart the latest release of software is. It can be programed to recognize the threat and take evasive action a lot faster than a human could. That's why we use these concepts on modern fighter jets and weapons systems.

      What I always like about this software is that once you program it, it will perform consistently all over the world. With humans, some may react properly and some may not. You could train everyone in the world but the next generation of humans will go back to doing it wrong.

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      • #4
        I worked for Allied-Signal when they developed collision avoidance radar system.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by jhjimbo View Post
          I worked for Allied-Signal when they developed collision avoidance radar system.
          Good stuff jimbo. I worked for United Airlines in 1970 when we flew our first 747 from New York to Tokyo without pilots in the cockpit. They were riding in the cabin, just in case but they weren't needed and the flight went great. I think Boeing used the Allied-Signal radar system a few years later for collision avoidance. Lots of telemetry data went into controlling the aircraft and it has been added to immensely over the years. In addition to "fly-by-wire", we supplemented with tons of support and control such as weather and winds aloft, emergency situation bale out (like that used in the Sioux City crash where total hydraulic control was lost and ground computers calculated a series of engine thrusts that would cause gradually descending circles to enable a crash landing on the end of a runway).

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          • #6
            I flew the first Pan Am around the World 747 flight. (Pan Am flew around the World every day.) I think it was called flight 2 coming back to NYC from Asia..
            Flight 1 was going out of NYC. I got on in Paris. going to JFK. We flew at close to 40,000ft. Three events - the truck did not have the correct hook up to the front wheels to back us out. In route the reading lights kept flashing on and off during the entire flight. And third - a cart that delivered the food collapsed right in the aisle. We started the decent for JFK over New Hampshire. .

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            • #7
              I was on the integration team when we acquired Pan Am's Pacific routes, pilots and planes in about 1986. They had been crashing about 3 planes per year in typhoons in the South Pacific. The 50 747s we acquired were taken out of service for a year as they were completely disassembled and rebuilt. The pilots were shocked to see the degree of flight automation with weather, winds, station congestion, radar-based collision detection, preplanned emergency response and diversion plans, etc. They didn't know that such things even existed. No more crashes have occurred on those routes since that time. After about six months of conditioned response training, the pilots have not had an incident either. I'm a believer in automation... it works, humans... not so much.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by DakotaMan View Post
                I was on the integration team when we acquired Pan Am's Pacific routes, pilots and planes in about 1986. They had been crashing about 3 planes per year in typhoons in the South Pacific. The 50 747s we acquired were taken out of service for a year as they were completely disassembled and rebuilt. The pilots were shocked to see the degree of flight automation with weather, winds, station congestion, radar-based collision detection, preplanned emergency response and diversion plans, etc. They didn't know that such things even existed. No more crashes have occurred on those routes since that time. After about six months of conditioned response training, the pilots have not had an incident either. I'm a believer in automation... it works, humans... not so much.
                The flight I took from Paris to NY must have been '69.

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                • #9
                  Big difference between radar avoidance in the sky and on the ground with limited visibility. Never heard of a kid chasing a ball getting mashed by a jet. Have heard of computers crashing…..

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by fitch270 View Post
                    Big difference between radar avoidance in the sky and on the ground with limited visibility. Never heard of a kid chasing a ball getting mashed by a jet. Have heard of computers crashing…..
                    I agree Fitch as I've done both (planes & trains). Threat detection and collision avoidance is actually much more complex in three dimensional space. Radar sees a lot better than the human eye regardless of the weather. Please don't drive if it's foggy as humans don't fare well and will lose to automated controls every time. Visual detection / pattern matching systems don't work either when there is no visibility. I have not worked with pattern matching using infrared but that should be a big help in fog and the dark for the slow moving and close quarters automobile controls. Too bad I'm so old, I always wanted to do planes, trains and automobiles.

                    Yes, I have heard of computers crashing. These control systems don't use the same computer operating systems as your Windows desktop. The cluster of computers I used for flight control in the 1970's averaged 6 seconds of total down time per year. By 1986, we developed and used an operating system that has never been down 1 second since that time. I know a lot about control system reliability and made a living doing that for many years.

                    One thing most people don't realize is that not all control computing is done on the vehicle. Remote computers with BIG networks and gigantic real time databases can watch your position and vector in real time, ahead and behind at all times. They know traffic congestion, historical incidents related to the path between you and your destination, and they could know the speed and vector of all approaching and following vehicles. As human drivers, we only know what we've been taught and what what we see, hear and feel. It doesn't have to be that limited.
                    Last edited by DakotaMan; 08-14-2022, 09:10 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jhjimbo View Post

                      The flight I took from Paris to NY must have been '69.
                      Yipes! That was a risky venture on Pan Am in those days. Thankfully, they didn't have many typhoons on that route. Sad to say, in 1969, trunk carriers were losing about 3 planes a year. That was in the days of "all manual" flight.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here in Thorne Bay Alaska we still fly VFR Beavers and Otters over from Ketchikan. There's one outfit flying Caravans into Klawock on the new fangled gear, if you've absolutely got to be on time. The mail comes over on the float planes to Thorne Bay. Sometimes it's a few days behind here in the rain forest.

                        Let's GO Brandon!!!!

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                        • #13
                          What do you think of TWA Flt 800 getting hit over Long Island?

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                          • #14
                            Are the driverless dars using the painted lines on the road surface ?
                            I know the Co. that makes the reflective beads that are mixed into the paint for the marker lines.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Dakota,

                              ”As human drivers, we only know what we've been taught and what what we see, hear and feel. It doesn't have to be that limited.”

                              Well, computers can only know what they’re programmed for. Barring artificial intelligence, which isn’t likely in automotive use at this point, humans have a huge advantage in anticipation based on experience and “feel”.


                              I’m not sure how radar is going to differentiate between a guy walking his dog on a sidewalk and a doe and fawn standing just off the shoulder. Recognizing possible threats before they occur is every bit as important, if not more, than speed of response after the fact.



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