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  • Originally posted by crm3006 View Post
    From honk the phony- Hah, hah, hah! I guess the Union troops at Gettysburg, Pennsylvania were just shooting at each other? Or maybe you think Pennsylvania was a Southern State? Makes about as much geographical sense as your assertion that elk roam the tundra. Ft Sumpter was the property of US govt. Davis ordered his troops to shell it and the Civil War started. That doesn't constitute agression? Davis and the Southern warhawks were afraid Lincoln might succeed in resolving the crisis and drawing the border states back into the Union fold. They were were in a hurry for war ... and got exactly what they wanted when Sumpter was shelled.

    [COLOR=#27ae60]Well, ol' honk the phony historian, ...
    Again, hah, hah, hah. I'm the revisionist historian? What a laugh hearing that come from you! The Union was under no obligation to turn over federal property to the Confederacy. Obviously Congress was not going to recognize the "rights" of a rebel state born of treason. Nor would it be inclined to do business with it (i.e. sell the forts or take monopoly money for debts). Did the South have the same rights to cecede as the Thirteen Colonies? Perhaps. And the Union had the same right as Britain did to do something about it. And did Britain have the right to do something about colonies who refused to help pay for an expensive war that George Washington initiated without England's authority (F&I War)? Sure. Unfortunately for Britain its generals made more mistakes than the Americans and they lost the Revolution ... or they just got tired of fighting over something that really wasn't worth the trouble. Better plums to pick in other parts of the world. Britain figured the Americans were too divided and to inexperienced to last long anyway. They nearly were right on the second count but the US squeaked through Shay's Rebellion by working out a Constitution at the last minute. Somehow, through a series of concessions and compromises the country surprised everyone and also managed to survive its fatal divisiveness for eighty years. In the end the Brits were right on that one. It would destroy the United States ... but only temporarily.

    So Beauregard was "goaded" into attacking Sumpter because reinforcements were being sent? Really, Lincoln couldn't just let the troops starve. What did Beauregard expect him to do? And how many reinforcements could the Union stack into that place anyway? And do what with them? Pretty much impossible to launch an offensive without being detected. The troops would be slaughtered before they landed. Sure, the fort could threaten to fire on any ships bringing supplies into the harbor... and Charleston's massive shore batteries would turn it to rubble after the first shot. But the South couldn't wait for the fort to fire the first shot (which it clearly wouldn't under the circumstances). The threat of a diplomatic solution was what "goaded" Beauregard to attack the fort. Because that was the most frightening prospect for rebel leaders and generals who had gambled everything on breaking away.

    I see you have reviewed your history and "revised" your assertion that the South never invaded the North. But I'm the "revisionist?"

    You need to understand what a precarious situation Lincoln was in. He had essentially stolen the Republican nomination and won the election by default (sound familiar?). He had zero credibility when he arrived in D.C. His Congress was deeply divided even after secession. Union warhawks were no less problematic. But unlike Trump, Lincoln was a very astute leader and a truly remarkable "good" man. He could make enemies love him (he filled his cabinet with political enemies and made it work through the worst war in US history). Lincoln's remarkable ability to manage people and create solutions was what "goaded" the South into starting the war. The South's aristocracy feared any solution that would phase out slavery. They feared Lincoln would work his magic and pull the Southern States apart one by one through diplomacy.
    Last edited by Ontario Honker Hunter; 07-16-2020, 05:01 PM.

    Comment


    • How did Trump steal the Republican nomination?

      You couldn't make a post without bashing Trump.


      Last edited by Danbo; 07-16-2020, 05:30 PM.

      Comment


      • From honk the phony- Again, hah, hah, hah. I'm the revisionist historian? ..... blah blah blah ad nauseam.

        Again, phony, lots of words, with no facts. You are the typical leftist liberal. Cant' dazzle with brilliance, but expert at baffling with bullsquat. Well, you have no facts, as usual.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Danbo View Post
          How did Trump steal the Republican nomination?

          You couldn't make a post without bashing Trump.

          Trump was elected by default: a loser but the lesser of two evils. Lincoln was a relative unknown but his opponent, like Clinton, was simply disliked more. Unlike Trump, Lincoln turned out to have remarkable abilities. Just that few in DC knew anything about him and formed unfounded prejudicial opinions. There is the story of his inaugural ball. The Lincolns showed up a little late. Everyone couldn't help notice this tall, rawboned, homely character with poorly fitting clothes and his squat chunky wife. "Country bumpkins!" They were initially snubbed and ignored. But within twenty minutes a small bunch of men had gathered around Lincoln and within an hour everyone in the place was listening to him tell stories and jokes, his dark eyes sparkling. The guy never was imposing ... no one beyond the first two rows at Gettysburg Cemetery could hear his famous speech. But there was definitely magic about Lincoln. It's the way it is with some people.

          Comment


          • crm: Wow! You just make this stuff up and call it history. Davis was already appointed provisional president of the Confederacy and he gave the order to bomb the fort to dust if it wasn't surrendered. It's a fact. Any eighth grader knows that.

            Lincoln had informed Gov Pickens that he would be sending supplies only to the fort, but IF the supply efforts were met with resistance, reinforcements would follow immediately (but I'm not sure how 200 more troops would have helped the situation much). Beaureguard sent his ultimatum to abandon the fort then pushed up the deadline when he heard supplies were coming. Anderson did not surrender and the fort was bombarded, starting the war.

            Technically, the South had already fired the first shot well before Sumpter bombardment when Charleston shore batteries earlier fired on a Union supply ship. Didn't hit it, but they tried. President Buchanan was a lame duck and chose to let next administration respond. So the incident blew over, much to the Confederacy leadership's disappointment. More evidence of Northern Agression, eh?

            Seven slave states, including Virginia were still holding out and not committed to the Confederacy. Lincoln was desperately trying to maintain the status quo till things could cool down. Davis, on the other hand, needed war to push the undecided states into Confederacy. In the modern context his actions would likely be considered a war crime. But of course this was the War of Northern Agression, right? What a joke!
            Last edited by Ontario Honker Hunter; 07-16-2020, 06:30 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Ontario Honker Hunter View Post

              Trump was elected by default: a loser but the lesser of two evils. Lincoln was a relative unknown but his opponent, like Clinton, was simply disliked more. Unlike Trump, Lincoln turned out to have remarkable abilities. Just that few in DC knew anything about him and formed unfounded prejudicial opinions. There is the story of his inaugural ball. The Lincolns showed up a little late. Everyone couldn't help notice this tall, rawboned, homely character with poorly fitting clothes and his squat chunky wife. "Country bumpkins!" They were initially snubbed and ignored. But within twenty minutes a small bunch of men had gathered around Lincoln and within an hour everyone in the place was listening to him tell stories and jokes, his dark eyes sparkling. The guy never was imposing ... no one beyond the first two rows at Gettysburg Cemetery could hear his famous speech. But there was definitely magic about Lincoln. It's the way it is with some people.
              Trump was not elected by default. He beat all Republicans in primary and defeated Clinton in general.

              Trump held his last campaign rally in Michigan on Election Day morning at 1am to a packed house.

              He basically went everywhere while Clinton was hiding. Does that seem familiar?

              Nobody runs for popular vote get over it.

              I noticed no TDS in this post 👍

              Comment


              • Trump was elected by default: .......

                Typical phony, all blow, no show.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jhjimbo View Post

                  Rat, last election in CA had more votes cast than registered voters. FRAUD all over the place.
                  Interesting. Got a link to a reputable source for all this voter fraud. I'd be interested as I value the integrity of our vote.

                  Comment


                  • Rat, last election in CA had more votes cast than registered voters. FRAUD all over the place.
                    I'm sorry, I knew already there was none and was just kidding around. Whatever source you are using you should probably think twice. If that source can mislead you about something so basic, imagine the other things that likely are untrue. I figure you googled, and decided not to reply.

                    Texas seems to be having a right old time with the virus. Their case averages are going decidedly up. I like the weekly average, I know people get sick on the weekend, it's just that they don't get reported until Monday and stats come out Tuesday, Wed, Thurs. Texas is headed up with nothing to suggest things are leveling yet. 16,000 new cases per day is a lot. They are at around 150 deaths per day too. I somehow don't think any magic immunity will appear. Until infection rates turn around, deaths will continue to rise, and even when infection slows, that won't be reflected in deaths for a month. So best case, Texas has 4,500 deaths over the next month, and I doubt things will turn around tomorrow. If things follow as elsewhere people won't get scared until they see the bad bits on TV. Then masks and closed restaurants and bars will seem ok but it will be too late.

                    Comment


                    • Here is an independent view of our current situation with the COVID-19 pandemic.

                      https://news.yahoo.com/in-interview-...230937512.html

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by PigHunter
                        [B]Is Voter Fraud Real? A look at California’s
                        If both parties have equal opportunity to abuse the system then there is equal opportunity for either to receive invalid votes. Biden may get ten percent more votes than he should have but there's no reason Trump won't get ten percent more than he would have without mail in ballots. It is easy enough to forecast Trump won't get enough popular votes of any sort in California to take the state's electoral votes. This might be an issue if it was expected Trump had a chance of taking California but we all know that can't happen. I easily predict he will take no more than four states in November and MAYBE he'll be close in no more than half a dozen others. The number of "spoiled" ballots with no box checked for president will be staggering to behold. He will only get a handful of electoral votes. The president's campaign is no longer in a downward spiral or even free fall. He's driving it into the ground with pedal to the metal. Watching this past week's events unfold was painful. I almost feel sorry for him. A wrecking ball.

                        Comment


                        • For every example or charge of fraud there is an automatic denial. Some Secretary of State have been sued because they have not cleaned up their roles. Examples are everywhere - charges and trials with convictions have developed.
                          Rat, who says your source-link is any good ? YOU ?

                          Comment


                          • OHH wrote:

                            "... I easily predict he will take no more than four states in November and MAYBE he'll be close in no more than half a dozen others. ..."

                            So, forgive my rudimentary math.
                            Your prediction is that Trump will "WIN", by popular vote, NO MORE than "TEN (10) STATES" in the upcoming presidential election on November of 2020. Correct?

                            Just how "confident" are you in your prediction?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by PigHunter
                              Just more Trump bashing from Yahoo. Not an unbiased view. Looks like you just web search for articles that agree with your skewed opinions.
                              You've noticed that the articles I provide links to are from all over the country, and not just one source.
                              If you look at the media bias chart, you will see that most of my sources are in the center or very close to it.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by PigHunter
                                Just more Trump bashing from Yahoo. Not an unbiased view. Looks like you just web search for articles that agree with your skewed opinions.
                                Hang on now, you diss 99 on his sources and just above him you use "themarketswork.com" What next, whyweneedtotakealltheworkingpeoplesmoneyviataxbrea ksforthewealthy.com?

                                Comment

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