Impeach?

[rock rat]

I ran across this written transcript of other testimony Friday that was behind closed doors. The testimony was by Vice President Pence's aide Jennifer Williams. Williams worked for Bush in Homeland Security, then as a Republican appointee for Chertoff, then a decade at state. I'm struck by how many very knowledgeable people Pence has working directly for him. Ms Williams area of expertise is Europe and the former Soviet Republics, and she follows all events in them very closely on a day to day basis both from open sources, embassies, intelligence, etc. She briefs the VP before calls, reviews talking points, etc. This is for the VP, and for one area of the world, for a VP whose purview covers everything domestic also.

It seems like Pence was out of the loop, as were all senators. Involved intimately in foreign policy but not with the bribe/extortion. It's 160 pages, I skimmed to the actual beginning then read 20 or 30, skipped to page 100 or so and read for a while. It sounded as if Williams was extremely forthcoming. Interviews are a lot longer than a soundbite on TV. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ny/4217655002/

[rock rat]

Oops, Trump just tweeted that Williams is a "never trumper".

[99explorer]

And now he is beating up on Chris Wallace at Fox News, saying he would never equal his father Mike Wallace.
If Trump has to call Rupert Murdoch, owner of Fox News, Chris may be out of a job.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...us/4223775002/

[99explorer]

I've never seen or heard a president whine so much about cable news coverage.
I think he watches too much TV.

[99explorer]

Well, I just got another email from the White House soliciting funds, and offering a 2020 calendar for a contribution in any amount.
The picture on the front of the calendar seems wobbly, so I hope it comes out here.

[99explorer]

Now I just got another fund-raising email from Trump complaining about SECRET impeachment hearings, and asking for $45.
I believe he has raised over $3 million thus far, and has raised the goal to $5 million to stop "the coup."
I am going to guess that the pot will be available to GOP senators who must risk their seats to vote "Not Guilty" in the impeachment trial.
Sort of an unwritten quid pro quo.
Just sayin.'

[99explorer]

Well now, with Ambassador Sondland's testimony, it looks like the quid pro quo issue has been resolved.
And quid pro quo equals bribery.

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/att/...153200592.html

[99explorer]

Quote from news article:

Some political analysts worry that too much focus on an archaic, ill-defined phrase like quid pro quo confuses the public, especially when a much more common and well-understood concept, BRIBERY, is explicitly mentioned in the Constitution’s impeachment clause. “When you’re trying to persuade the American people of something that is really pretty simple … it is probably best not to use Latin words to explain it,” said Democratic Rep. Jim Himes of Connecticut.

[rock rat]

Yesterday will probably stand as the pivotal day of the impeachment inquiry. Yesterday the first big Trump witness admitted pretty much everything. Reluctantly, but admitted it.

Sondland was the US ambassador to the EU appointed after donating a million dollars to Trump's inauguration. Unfamiliar with the niceties of Euro geo politics or even secure communication Sondland testified that he and others such as Pompeo (sec of state) Giuliani (personal lawyer) and so on were following Trump's orders in bribing the Ukraine President.

Sondland doesn't need a government job, he has lots of money, he just wants to stay out of jail. Most of the other principals involved are hiding behind executive privilege, though some like Bolton might well want to testify.

The constitution in it's portion describing impeachment lays out where the line of bribery occurs, and it's much more explicit than in our laws written afterwards, Trump crossed way over that line, it's unambiguous. Bribery and treason are the two offences specifically mentioned, and given how often Trump accuses others of treason I have to wonder. Projection is very typical for the guy.

Volker, Trump's special envoy to Ukraine testified yesterday amending his earlier testimony that occured behind closed doors to match the testimony of others. His memory got jogged. As was seen recently you can go to jail for lying to congress.

The day after the whistle blower's complaint reached congress Trump made a phone call and said many times he wanted nothing, no quid pro quo, etc etc and released the funds. Yesterday he quoted from that call as if to prove he had made no attempt to bribe. Horse had already left the barn, then he decided to bar the door.

The sad part is that more than likely impeachment votes still look to follow party lines, and there will be hearings in the senate but no conviction, and after seeing a portion of the debates last night Trump might well win re election.

[FirstBubba]

yesterday will probably stand as the pivotal day of the impeachment inquiry. Yesterday the first big trump witness admitted pretty much everything. Reluctantly, but admitted it.

Sondland was the us ambassador to the eu appointed after donating a million dollars to trump's inauguration. Unfamiliar with the niceties of euro geo politics or even secure communication sondland testified that he and others such as pompeo (sec of state) giuliani (personal lawyer) and so on were following trump's orders in bribing the ukraine president.

Sondland doesn't need a government job, he has lots of money, he just wants to stay out of jail. Most of the other principals involved are hiding behind executive privilege, though some like bolton might well want to testify.

The constitution in it's portion describing impeachment lays out where the line of bribery occurs, and it's much more explicit than in our laws written afterwards, trump crossed way over that line, it's unambiguous. Bribery and treason are the two offences specifically mentioned, and given how often trump accuses others of treason i have to wonder. Projection is very typical for the guy.

Volker, trump's special envoy to ukraine testified yesterday amending his earlier testimony that occured behind closed doors to match the testimony of others. His memory got jogged. As was seen recently you can go to jail for lying to congress.

The day after the whistle blower's complaint reached congress trump made a phone call and said many times he wanted nothing, no quid pro quo, etc etc and released the funds. Yesterday he quoted from that call as if to prove he had made no attempt to bribe. Horse had already left the barn, then he decided to bar the door.

The sad part is that more than likely impeachment votes still look to follow party lines, and there will be hearings in the senate but no conviction, and after seeing a portion of the debates last night trump might well win re election.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz😴😴😴

[FirstBubba]

This ... "impeachment" (?) ... event was supposed to be bipartisan.
Nope. Strictly partyline vote.
(D) yes
(R) no

The current (D) "dog & pony" show isn't even a "legal" proceeding. It's a (D) political farce.

ALL sides of this fiasco are strictly political.
No guess who sees what.
One's political bent is what one chooses to see.

[99explorer]

I think by now, everyone knows what Trump has done, and the only question is whether it constitutes an impeachable offense punishable by removal from office.
The Senate trial is likely to result in an acquittal, as in the Clinton case, although everyone knew he was guilty as charged.
This time around, it seems likely Trump will be found guilty by a majority, but not the super-majority required for removal.
All of this presupposes that Trump does not do anything NEW to add to the articles of impeachment, such as jury tampering or attempting bribery of the jury with campaign funds to those senators who vote "not guilty."

[rock rat]

This past week a lot happened and nothing changed. The nothing that didn't change was that Trump enjoys 90% support with the Republican party, and actually that's something he he. Trump still stands 0% chance of conviction in the senate according to most observers.

The testimony under oath did little to change the dynamic except maybe amongst Republican pundits who no longer or never worked for Fox or Trump.

Friday at the very end of the hearings as people were making canned statements to the cameras I noticed some people mentioned news reports to be entered into the record, one from the The Daily Beast which is a left wing media source which scores higher than Fox News on truthiness but not by too much. I thought it highly unusual. Saturday everyone got a chance to check it out and now the story has been corroborated (via the same source) and it's on every source including Fox.

A couple weeks ago, maybe three, a couple of guys that looked like Russian mobsters were arrested while trying to leave the country, then another the next day. Turns out they'd been making very large campaign contributions from unknown sources and hiding the fact. They were also heavily connected to Guliani, Trump's personal lawyer. They aren't really Russian but Ukrainians sympathetic to Russia and with lots of connections to the old pro Russia regime. They are all extremely fluent in Ukrainian and English serving as trusted translators and also go betweens for the former prosecutor in Ukraine, Trump, etc.

Via his attorney one of the three is cooperating. His first tidbit is Nunes, the ranking member of the Republican party on the R side of the hearings last week in impeachment in front of the intelligence committee. There will more than likely be an ethics inquiry into Nunes' use of funds to take a secret trip to Europe last January to meet with the Ukrainian. Probably the idea is to question Nunes under oath. Anyone can say anything to the newspapers, under oath one can go to jail for lying. Nunes was secretly in contact with pro Russian operators during the entire investigation into Russian interference in US elections. Nunes is screaming and yelling, threatening law suits, and not denying anything.

So now there is the Nunes angle.

Pelosi is intent on ushering this in to the senate as soon as after the Thanksgiving holidays. In the senate anyone can be called to testify, not possible to go through a months long or years long indictment process. Presiding over the senate is Chief Justice Roberts. Of course the senate can overrule him with a simple majority but it sure wouldn't look good if say Bolton was asked to testify. Roberts has a lifetime appointment, no one can take his job away, he might be considering legacy.

Politically nothing has changed, Trump has approval, the senate won't convict. Structurally things have moved in favor of the Dems. The week's testimony was very convincing and Trump has only made things worse. We'll see what happens. If Trump support ever softens it will happen precipitously.

For a good summary of how impeachment works I provide a link below so no one need make cries of hearsay, innocent until proven guilty or other irrelevant comments, though I know there will still be plenty.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/artic...t-process.html

[FirstBubba]

New York magazine?
Surely you jest?

[rock rat]

New York magazine?
Surely you jest?

Read the original if you want, it's a harder slog. https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44260.pdf New York Magazine is not the New Yorker, especially since bought by Vox last year.