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  • Gorsuch is correct.

    I agree with longer sentences for crimes involving guns, but Justice Gorsuch is correct.
    The Constitution makes no mention of crimes committed with a gun requiring/deserving a longer sentence.
    Justice Kavanaugh contends that this reversal of a 30+ year precedent could lead to the early release of criminals serving extended sentences because they used a gun in the commission of a crime....and HE is correct.

    ----------
    from the article:

    "...​Gorsuch sided with liberal justices in a 5-4 decision in United States v. Davis, for which he wrote the opinion of the court. The law in question calls for longer sentences when a person uses a firearm in connection with a “crime of violence,” which is defined as a felony “that by its nature, involves a substantial risk that physical force against the person or property of another may be used in the course of committing the offense.” That definition is rather confusing, Gorsuch said. ..."

    "... Vague laws leave it to unelected attorneys and judges to determine what acts qualify as crimes, Gorsuch said, when it is really Congress’ job to make that decision with the laws that they pass. ..."
    ----------

    ​​​​​​I can't say that I agree with Gorsuch, but I still think he is correct.

    You win a few and you lose a few.
    Occasionally, all you can do is pray for rain!

    https://bearingarms.com/matt-v/2019/...deral-gun-law/
    Last edited by FirstBubba; 06-25-2019, 10:30 PM.

  • #2
    Gorsuch was an appointment I enthusiastically supported, as did the Democratic senator from my state. Lawyers, liberal lawyers at that, liked him a lot here when he was a judge. A good judge like Gorsuch isn't necessarily liberal or conservative. Yes he is conservative in that he tends to interpret the Constitution as it was written, but he is also famous for applying a lot of common sense to his decisions. The qualifier,,,,, I didn't like that he tends to side with corporations over workers.

    Another thing I like about Gorsuch is that he is from the west. Grew up here, does western type things, is a westerner. One thing about westerners is that guns are not such a big deal, many people have guns somewhere or other and know how to use them. Having one on you when committing a crime, or in your vehicle, doesn't make one a violent criminal the way it tends to do in big cities on the coasts.

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    • #3
      An optimist might see this as a win for gun owners (who happen to be criminals).

      Comment


      • #4
        "... Vague laws leave it to unelected attorneys and judges to determine what acts qualify as crimes, ..."

        One must simply look to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals to see "unelected" officials using their position to further political agendas rather than interpret the letter of the law.

        Also Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Page, Lerner and Lynch.
        People who used their appointed position to further a political agenda.
        Last edited by FirstBubba; 06-26-2019, 08:01 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by FirstBubba View Post
          "... Vague laws leave it to unelected attorneys and judges to determine what acts qualify as crimes, ..."

          One must simply look to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals to see "unelected" officials using their position to further political agendas rather than interpret the letter of the law.
          That Bubba, is where I become confused in regards to ‘validity of the law’ ! When there is a division between judges as to ‘validity’, how is a person to put assurance in the fact of which opinion is correct ? I realize that is the reason for a odd number on the Supreme Court, so as to have a majority, however, that still means a difference in thought and thus in ‘validity’ ! There really is nothing totally definite regarding ‘the law’, it just all depends of how each judge inter-pets it and makes a decision, thus the question of which is correct ?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by bowhunter75richard View Post

            That Bubba, is where I become confused in regards to ‘validity of the law’ ! When there is a division between judges as to ‘validity’, how is a person to put assurance in the fact of which opinion is correct ? I realize that is the reason for a odd number on the Supreme Court, so as to have a majority, however, that still means a difference in thought and thus in ‘validity’ ! There really is nothing totally definite regarding ‘the law’, it just all depends of how each judge inter-pets it and makes a decision, thus the question of which is correct ?
            bhr, I can only surmise what was on Gorsuch mind, but I can "guess".
            I interpret it as the "law" was vague, therefore, Gorsuch felt he had to go back to the Constitution.
            The Constitution does not address any such situation, therefore, "invalid".

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            • #7
              I believe Gorsuch was thinking of a hypothetical case like one in which the robber hands a bank teller a note saying that he has a gun, and he does in fact have an unloaded gun in his pocket, but he does not actually have to display it to get the teller's cooperation.
              Under current (vague) law, that robber would be eligible for additional punishment because of the presence of the gun, just as if he had recklessly sprayed the bank with machine gun bullets to get everyone's attention.
              Justice Kavanaugh, in his dissenting opinion, wrote that the Court should deal with the actual case at hand in which a genuine crime of violence took place using a short-barrel shotgun.
              Last edited by 99explorer; 06-26-2019, 11:22 AM.

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              • #8
                I can see your point Bubba, to a point. But the Constitution, does not give a term of detention on any crime, or specifically even mentions any crime. Those are all issues that have been legislated, and in my mind goes back to the question of ‘validity’ in their viewing by judges.

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                • #9
                  BHR - Please read my comment, above yours.
                  We were typing at the same time, but my comment came in just ahead of yours.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bowhunter75richard View Post
                    I can see your point Bubba, to a point. But the Constitution, does not give a term of detention on any crime, or specifically even mentions any crime. Those are all issues that have been legislated, and in my mind goes back to the question of ‘validity’ in their viewing by judges.
                    This goes back to the times when Congress enacts a law, then hands it off to a bureaucracy to interpret and enforce as they see fit.

                    It ends up being like the blind men inspecting the elephant.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Until this case came up, everyone seemed to think they knew what a crime of violence was.
                      Congress has to get back to work and re-enact this law to take the vagueness out of it.

                      Comment

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