What is a 44-40 and why is it thought to be so weak?

[Bryan Austin]

Updated/edited 20 Jan 2020

There are many myths an untruths regarding the 44-40 cartridges of today. Nearly every article on the net reviews the old cartridge as weak and out dated. Contrary...if those that wrote these articles knew the full history of this famous cartridge and how Winchester loaded it during the early 1900's thru the 1950's, they would certainly stop writing these ridiculous articles.

The 44-40 is capable today of surpassing it's original black powder 1,300fps loading's of yesteryear. There are at least nineteen different firearms, that this cartridges was used. Not to be used in revolvers, of these nineteen, nine are of superior strength and can surpass original pressures and velocities. Just like with the 45 Colt, 45-70 and other cartridges that can be loaded HOT, so can the 44-40...as it was from the factory. HOT loads are not necessarily needed but for longer distance shooting, at least out to 250 yards, this extra velocity retains energy and creates a flatter trajectory. A few of these stronger rifles include the Marlin 1894, Winchester 92' and 94'....yes the 94' was chambered in 44-40 for Canada and Commemoratives.

Replicating original Winchester 44-40 "High Velocity loads can be achieved by following Lyman's 49th handloading manual's Group II rifle loadings...again NOT FOR REVOLVERS. Lyman offers information using the Speer JHP with 2400 @ 1,600fps and the Lyman 427098 with Unique @ 1,400fps.

For more in depth information visit;
https://sites.google.com/view/44winc...nsisaami-specs
https://sites.google.com/view/44winc...essure-testing

[franchi20]

What the hel is all that about? What's your point?

[jhjimbo]

Lots of history. My Uncles Father hunted deer and black bear with a 44-40 in the Adirondacks, don't remember his rifle. My Sister has hunted deer in the Adirondacks with a Marlin 38-40, now the rifle is retired.

[99explorer]

I know of one animal shot with the .38-40 in a rifle that failed to break the shoulder.
Mild on the shooter, and even milder on the game.

[99explorer]

Bryan - The shot was taken at 100 yards, and although the buck went down, he was up and running in a few seconds.
It took a tracking job and two more shots to finish him off.
The first shot was lodged under the skin, but come to think of it, I do not know for a fact that it was factory ammo.

[Pmacc60]

Bryan excellent post, like PH you got my attention and sparked my interest. I always enjoy reading something a little different . Well done

[99explorer]

In the case of the .38-40 shooting that I reported, the shooter was intrigued by the thought of hunting with old-time pistol cartridges in old Winchester rifles, which I think is a disservice to the animal hunted.
We should hunt game with the best and most effective equipment available to us.
JMO.

[DakotaMan]

I enjoyed it too. This is an old cartridge. By today's standards for good hunting rifles, this cartridge is "weak". At its time of origin bullet supply was limited in the wild west and shooters liked a cartridge they could use in both their pistol and rifle. Most shooting was conducted at relatively short range and we must remember that old time wisdom from cap and ball days was far superseded by this short range thumper. The repeating capability of the rifles added shooting power far beyond what was normally seen in the 1850-1899 time period.

[jhjimbo]

Ever since Weatherby pushed the speed barrier this Country has been on a race to get the fastest, flattest, hardest hitting projectile possible. My Uncle's Father hunted with a 44-40 and yes, by some count, it was a puny deer cartridge - compared to what else was available. Maybe it knocked the deer straight down, but how many got back up and ran away never to be seen again. No thank you, not when cartridges like the 30-40Krag are available (my early deer rifle), I will stick with something that has some oomph. My Sister hunted with a 38-40 with limited success and finally switched to a 16ga as her favorite.
Thanks for you detailed account of the 44-40. Jim

[gregjohnsondsm]

Great information. Thanks for your time and work. I have a new to me 1873 winchester with the mark 44 on the receiver. That makes it a 44-40 I believe. I want to use this for deer and would like to ask your opinion on the use of 'cowboy' loads for this rifle. Will these work without destroying the gun or myself? Everything I have read shows that they should. I have a RCBS reloader setup but do not have the time yet to reload my own loads. Plus I only expect to shoot a few practice shots and then say 1 per year

[Bryan Austin]

In the case of the .38-40 shooting that I reported, the shooter was intrigued by the thought of hunting with old-time pistol cartridges in old Winchester rifles, which I think is a disservice to the animal hunted.
We should hunt game with the best and most effective equipment available to us.
JMO.

Like I said, this is the higher performance 44-40, not a 38-40

The following photo was from my 2017 hunt with the stronger action Marlin 1894CB. 25gr of Reloder 7 and a Hornady 240gr SWC HP @ 1,350fps and around 15,000psi. That is 10% to 20% greater performance than a 200gr bullet. Shot was from only 65 yards. Hit the shoulder, turned 90degres, traveled down the spinal cord and lodged in the hind quarter. Deer dropped straight down, never taking a step.

So your reply is invalid.

The link below will take you to my testing results. USE AT OWN RISK, for discussional purposes only!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SUk...Z7HXtnLgk/view

[99explorer]

That photo of the deer looks like spine shot, which was likely an instant kill, and a lucky one at that.
A 90 degree deflection would indicate a shortage of penetration power.

[Bryan Austin]

That photo of the deer looks like spine shot, which was likely an instant kill, and a lucky one at that.
A 90 degree deflection would indicate a shortage of penetration power.

Lucky?...LOL, you guys crack me up. It did exactly what it was expected to do......and what it has been doing for 140 years.

[99explorer]

I think an intentional spine shot is a little too close to the margin for a sure hit.
I made a a spine shot once because of a deflected bullet (7x57 Mauser) and there were two holes in the hide. Entry and exit. No deflection.

[Bryan Austin]

I think an intentional spine shot is a little too close to the margin for a sure hit.
I made a a spine shot once because of a deflected bullet (7x57 Mauser) and there were two holes in the hide. Entry and exit. No deflection.

Kinda messes up some meat too but it beats chasing one into the swamp.