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what was the first centerfire ammo caliber invented? not counting revolver. i'm talking rifles. i have it narrowed down to the .

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  • David Fagan
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim in Mo View Post
    Reid, you didn't identify black powder or smokeless. 30-30 is first for smokeless. For black powder, that may be a bigger argument than 'what is the best caliber for deer'.
    opps guess I posted wrong oh well....

    Leave a comment:


  • David Fagan
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim in Mo View Post
    Reid, you didn't identify black powder or smokeless. 30-30 is first for smokeless. For black powder, that may be a bigger argument than 'what is the best caliber for deer'.
    opps guess I posted wrong oh well....

    Leave a comment:


  • David Fagan
    replied
    Originally posted by Jim in Mo View Post
    Reid, you didn't identify black powder or smokeless. 30-30 is first for smokeless. For black powder, that may be a bigger argument than 'what is the best caliber for deer'.
    I don't see an answer here and 1857 for Rimfire is really not correct.
    Priming compound in a thin case was patented in 1831 with thoughts for use in a airgun but this evolved into 22 cb cap by Flobert in 1845 which turned into 22 Short by Smith & Wesson in 1857.

    Now the question still remains unanswered so.
    The centerfire (in a form we would recognize) was actually created in 1861 by a guy named Clement Pottet in Paris.

    I can't answer who was the first manufacture in the US to make a firearm using one. Someone in the early 1870's. I suspect someone may made pinfires in the US which predated ALL of this back in the 1830's by another French guy which is basically a cap built on rod into a cartridge.

    Leave a comment:


  • Denis V. Murphy II
    replied
    The oldest military cartiidge still in use today is the 7.62X54r developed for the Mosin Nagant rifle. Which is used by the CCCP/Russia Federation/ Finns in the 91/30. 91 is 1891 first MN, the 30 is 1930 when they changed the rifle not the cartridge. So used in MN 91/30, M44, T-53, SVT-38, SVT-40, Dragonuv sniper rifle today, and a light machine gun. you can buy 880 surplus rounds for less than 250.00 in today's market

    Leave a comment:


  • MLH
    replied
    First smokeless cartridge was probably the 8mm Lebel in 1886.

    Leave a comment:


  • MLH
    replied
    Forgot .. if you don't mind the primer (percussion cap) being separate from the metallic cartridge with central opening then consider the 1856 Maynard.

    Leave a comment:


  • MLH
    replied
    The first S&W metallic cartridges were rimfires, not centerfires.

    Where is Wane Van Zwoll when you need him to answer a question like this? ... perhaps the .61 caliber, paper-wrapped bullet with integral primer in the von Dreyse needle gun (1835) ... but the primer was located center between the powder and bullet.

    For metallic, I'll go with Ed J that the .50 Government seems to get the nod.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jeff Bowers
    replied
    Whooo hooo! 1857!!! I win so far... Except this story doesn't even mention a caliber, it's from a history guide to gunsmithing.

    "1857 - S&W started something that changed all this in America by introducing a successful metallic cartridge in 1857. The metallic cartridge was self-contained, meaning it carried its own powder, ball and primer cap all in one neat little package, and this package worked ...S&W started something that changed all this in America by introducing a successful metallic cartridge in 1857. The metallic cartridge was self-contained, meaning it carried its own powder, ball and primer cap all in one neat little package, and this package worked beautifully when loaded through the back of the barrel; ie: in a breechloader. The new metallic cartridge offered far quicker loading and re-loading, and perhaps of equal importance, it was waterproof."


    Link:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=IV8IzXysjeUC&pg=PA341&sig=4bfFGwawYK31qfg-BgjGCqazvU0#PPA341,M1

    Leave a comment:


  • Jeff Bowers
    replied
    Then... There's history versus claims.

    There are many references to the .45-70 going back about to the War of Northern Aggression.

    However, Winchester themselves claim that the .44-40 was the first successful centerfire round. To quote from their site:

    "Winchester® Supreme® Centerfire Rifle Ammunition stands as the most technologically advanced line of centerfire rifle ammunition in history - a history 127 years in the making. In 1873, less than a decade after the Civil War and when Westward expansion was in full gallop, Winchester introduced the first successful centerfire cartridge: the .44 WCF (.44-40). Designed for double duty in both rifles and handguns, this is the cartridge that won the west. And to hunters and sportsmen wanting the ultimate ammunition for any big-game need, Winchester has been delivering ever since."

    So there are conflicting dates to "first", "first commercial", "first successful", and "first official".

    Leave a comment:


  • Jeff Bowers
    replied
    I think we need to look it up, but I don't think America made the first centerfire cartridge. It may be England.

    But the .45-70, like above, is the oldest commercial reference to centerfire ammo...

    "The 45-70 dates back to as early as 1865 but it wasn't standardized until 1873, a U.S. Government contract was issued for several thousand Springfield rifles chambered for the 45-70, it was then called the 45-70 Government cartridge."

    Leave a comment:


  • Hunter Savage
    replied
    clay i will have to take a look at that

    Leave a comment:


  • bonnier-admin_2
    replied
    cooner

    What was the rreal first center fire cartridge made I don’t really know, but I do know the three you listed are fantastic cartridges and I own all three.

    I’ve found thru history one thing for certain, Guglielmo Marconi was not the real inventor of the first radio transmitter.

    http://www.ccrane.com/library/who-invented-radio.aspx

    While googling around I found this link. One cartridge list is a 338/50, a 50BMG necked down to 338 cal shooting a 250 grain at 3700fps

    GOT TO CHECK THIS OUT!!

    http://books.google.com/books?id=UoWa4CeDOccC&pg=PA124&lpg=PA124&dq=worldd s+first+centerfire+rifle&source=bl&ots=rw9rvhvuTN& sig=Sc-orW8u38v_sCtLXYaCQYi7AOQ&hl=en&ei=JWcaSqOCKJOyMcvP xIwP&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10#PPA5, M1

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim in Mo
    replied
    Reid, you didn't identify black powder or smokeless. 30-30 is first for smokeless. For black powder, that may be a bigger argument than 'what is the best caliber for deer'.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ed J
    replied
    Reid
    Get the book "Cartriges of the World" by Frank C. Barnes. All kinds of interesting cartridges in it.
    The .50-70 Musket (.50 Govt.) would be the oldest centerfire used by the military. In use from 1866 to 1873.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ed J
    replied
    .45-70 was adopted by the US military in 1873. It was the official cartridge for about 19 years.

    Leave a comment:

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