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That soccer referee in Utah who was punched by a 17-year-old goalie has died. How should this incident be treated and what shoul

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  • #16
    Hi...


    Lots of excellent posts on the subject. Hope the killer gets what's coming to him...and real quick.

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    • #17
      He is being held on simple aggravated assault with battery, He will NOT be charged with Murder. as of to day(FOX News) "Will" he be charged as an adult at this time NO, A Judge on Wednesday will decide..yes or No. And will other charges be added??

      JMO~ Give Him 30 Days and make him a Mormon?
      just kidding.

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      • #18
        Not sure about Utah, but where I'm at you can go to jail if you're 17. I would say it's murder. I mean, you don't accidentally punch somebody out of anger. Like Firstbubba said, I'm sure the kid didn't wanna kill the guy, but that shouldn't excuse you at all!

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        • #19
          Ontario, Sorry but your mistaken, again.

          The definition below is from Black's Law Dictionary. This is the dictionary that Attorneys, Prosecutors, Honorable Judges and other legal entities use for information and facts dealing with legal matters.
          I will quote word for word;

          Most unintentional killings are not murder but involuntary manslaughter. The absence of the element of intent is the key distinguishing factor between voluntary and involuntary manslaughter. In most states involuntary manslaughter results from an improper use of reasonable care or skill while performing a legal act, or while committing an act that is unlawful but not felonious.


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          • #20
            If it was me, I could count on dying in jail. Why is this kid different. This was no accident.

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            • #21
              Ontario, Drunk Driving is a felony in most states. You kill someone in the act of a felony like drunk driving, it is voluntary manslaughter.

              Comment


              • #22
                Utah defines murder as:

                (2) Criminal homicide constitutes murder if:
                (a) the actor intentionally or knowingly causes the death of another;
                (b) intending to cause serious bodily injury to another, the actor commits an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of another;
                (c) acting under circumstances evidencing a depraved indifference to human life, the actor knowingly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death to another and thereby causes the death of another;
                (d) (i) the actor is engaged in the commission, attempted commission, or immediate flight from the commission or attempted commission of any predicate offense, or is a party to the predicate offense;

                I don't think what he did fits the definition. I don't think it fits negligent homicide, either. For both charges, the kid would have to have been able to foresee that punching the ref would kill him. I don't think there is much of an argument for that.

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                • #23
                  Gary, where are you at that a first DUI is a felony? Most states, the first one is still a misdemeanor. Voluntary manslaughter is something else entirely. It applies only when the person would be charged with murder, but the charge is reduced because of mitigating circumstances, like a "heat of passion" defense.

                  If someone kills another while driving drunk, the charge will be involuntary manslaughter, criminally negligent homicide, vehicular manslaughter, or something similar, because they were acting recklessly and with indifference to the danger they posed to others, but they did not intend to harm someone.

                  Also, what is that a definition of???

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                  • #24
                    Greenhead, under most circumstances a conviction for driving under the influence is a misdemeanor, but there are circumstances upon which a driving under the influence can be a felony. In many states, a drunk driving charge is considered a traffic offense or a misdemeanor, but those charges can be enhanced depending upon other factors.
                    Killing somebody increases drunk driving to a second degree felony. The indictable offence is called intoxication manslaughter.

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                    • #25
                      A high school teacher from Florida was charged with a one punch homicide in a Las Vegas casino. Read the link below the teacher got off easy.

                      www.standard.net/stories/2013/02/14/ex-coach-gets-3-months-one-punch-death-roy-man-vegas-casino

                      The Florida teacher is an adult. The Utah soccer goalie is a juvenile.

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                      • #26
                        Greenhead, I believe in most states your 1st DUI is a felony, but your able to plead it down to a lesser charge (misdemeanor) while completing a weekend intervention.

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                        • #27
                          Gary, you obviously have trouble understanding what you are citing.

                          Greenhead, look closely at (b). It seems to me that definition fits exactly what happened. The intention was to cause serious bodily injury. I think if the kid had slapped the ref or shoved him and that somehow resulted in the ref's death (e.g. he slipped and fell and hit his head on something or got excited and had a heart attack) then there would be no grounds for murder/manslaughter. But the punk clearly intended to hit the ref hard enough to knock him out. Any time you purposely intend to rattle someone's brain you are "intending to cause serious bodily injury." The brain is essential for life. Purposely messing with it is purposely endangering life. Can't get any more "serious" than that. It's just that simple.

                          A juvenile will be charged with the same offense as an adult if he is suspected of committing the offense. He may be tried and punished as a juvenile offender. The offense is the same, the trial/punishment is different.

                          The ref was active in a Hispanic soccer league. I certainly hope there are no racial overtones emerging from this incident. Perhaps the kid was also Hispanic? Anybody heard? Certainly the media would have glommed onto it by now if he was "white."

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                          • #28
                            OHH, I see your point, but I don't think punching someone in the head once shows an intent to cause serious bodily injury. I also don't think that a single punch is "clearly dangerous to human life." An average person in that situation would not expect one punch to threaten human life. That is why fist fights are usually prosecuted as assault/battery, rather than aggravated assault/battery.

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                            • #29
                              Growing up with five brothers there were many fist fights between siblings over stupid things. Even in grammar school to high school I had been in a few fist fights. I have watched many other fist fights after school. My cousin sucker punched the class bully in class in front of the teacher and entire classroom.

                              I worked a part time side job at nights for three years at a Discothèque bar and restaurant. I broke of many brawls and seen many one punch sucker punches. I have seen many guys that were knock out cold in my life time. In all those years people were mad as hell but nobody ever had the intent to kill someone.

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                              • #30
                                I think the problem many people have with this incident is that the punch was uncalled for and completely unexpected. It was NOT a gradual escalation of force that started with an exchange of nasty personal remarks and some mutual pushing and shoving. It came from out of the blue.
                                Leo Durocher once kicked some dirt at an umpire for ejecting him from a game. So did Billy Martin. But nobody ever punched an umpire. It was unthinkable.
                                Standards have eroded and need to be re-elevated.

                                Comment

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