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Some time back Dave Petzel made an excellent post concering the last days of Neanderthal man. If I remember correctly one of the

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  • Some time back Dave Petzel made an excellent post concering the last days of Neanderthal man. If I remember correctly one of the

    Some time back Dave Petzel made an excellent post concering the last days of Neanderthal man. If I remember correctly one of the questions raised was, "Did Neanderthal go out with a bang or a wimper? I've always been interested in Neanderthal and just what might have happened to thier kind. There are many theorys out there, interbreeding, killed off by H. sapiens sapiens (Cro-Magnon), loss of habitat, etc., take your pick there are even more ideas out there. Renowned Biologist, Dr. Valerius Geist, proposed a very interesting theory about Neanderthal hunting tactics. Basing his theory on anatomical clues such as strength, body type and even Neanderthal's finger development he suggested that they used grappling as a means to bring down large game. Basically one fellow or lady would distract a large animal giving one or several more a chance to jump the animal and hold on while another killed it with a short stabbing spear. According to Dr. Geist, Neanderthal's rough knapped stone spear heads would be perfact for slipping between the ribs of a large animal when thrust on a short spear. Certainly a rough way to make a living! Dr. Geist based his research partially on injuries sustained by Rodeo Cowboys and Rodeo Clowns which compare favorably to those seen in Neanderthal fossils. Now there is also speculation that technology may be a factor in their demise. Long range (stand off) atlatl propelled throwing spears. Bone carvings that appear to be celestial calendars used to track game movements, even better clothing have been suggested as ways H. sapiens sapiens out competed Neanderthal. Something happend for sure as Neanderthal is to date the longest lived "Human" inhabitant of the planet at over 200,000 years. If you believe scientists our kind has only been around for about 40,000 to 60,000 or so... What do you think Neanderthal did on its last walk in the woods? How do you think he/she went out? Could we be creating the same circumstances for ourselves by utilizing technology in all of its abundance to further our lives?

  • #2
    Bee thats an interesting queation. I suspect we'll never know for sure what happened to Neanderthal man. A thing on Nat'; Geographic a few years ago suggested homo sapiens killed them off. They showed a skeleton of a 40 year old male with a partially healed spear wound in his side found in a French cave.

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    • #3
      Grappling with a cave-bear- the epitome of primitive hunting skill!
      you raise interesting, thought provoking questions and I appreciate that...

      As a boy roaming the Montana plains, I found many artifacts attributed to the Clovis people...My brothers and I located a burial site that appears to have multiple individuals...among some of the things I found were huge, stone meat cleavers, clovis spear points, a buffalo skull carved from stone with "paint" still visible, ochre palettes, and part of a petrified human skull...funny thing is, when I contacted the montana state archaeologist, they were COMPLETELY uninterested...We located another separate burial site tucked up underneath some rimrock and walled off, as if by a stone mason...a protruding femur confirmed it as a human burial...these sites and many more artifacts are STILL THERE as I have not divulged the location to anyone...

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      • #4
        Beekeeper i believe that the neanderthal didn't die out but became mixed with other existing population's like domestic hog's mix with feral hog's.

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        • #5
          Scientists have acknowledged the distinct possibility, if not likelihood, of hybrids.

          My opinion is that it wasn't a bang. It was a long, slow process.

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          • #6
            The Neanderthal failed to develop mentally as the other homo sapians around the world and were eventually killed off by superior minds and tools.

            There is no evidence that Neanderthal DNA exist in the human species.

            Recent evidence was discovered in the United States that Neanderthal DNA does still exist. Though inconclusive, traits of Neanderthal activity was recently displayed when editors at Field and Stream magazine released the Huntress.

            When questioned the editors simply grunted.

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            • #7
              buckhunter: LOL, classic!

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              • #8
                Keen and astute observations Buck Hunter!

                Kingfisher,

                I don't know if you get the same chill I get from holding or just seeing such artifacts, I feel some sort of connection. Maybe it is the hunter in me...

                For those of you who might like to lean more of Dr. Geist's theory on Neanderthal's hunting techniques and subsequent demise check out the following link:

                http://cogweb.ucla.edu/ep/NeanderthalParadigm.html

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                • #9
                  Bee,

                  you know a few Neanderthals must have survived. I've seen them in Geico commercials.................hahahah

                  I know exactly what you mean. I too have wondered what a story a spearpoint could tell if it could talk. Who made it? What was it used for? Did he kill a beast or another man?

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                  • #10
                    Oh, and the NG thing also suggested that N man also may have killed his own children in times of famine to save food. I think that was some liberal BS to justify abortion.

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                    • #11
                      The Neanderthal was doing good things were well till one day they invented politics, they had a really smart one that they wanted to make leader. Well that went Ok so they kept it up for a few generations with no criteria or qualifications they just thought it was a good idea. This also created laws that made it illegal to kill off or banish the non productive members and actually sent them checks to thier caves to stay home and have baby lazy Neanderthals that also didn't work. Well after a couple of generations of this all the Neanderthals were lazy and thought that someone else should take care of them so H Sapiens came along and killed em off.
                      Just my theory...

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                      • #12
                        Beeman, I am intrigued by the final part of your question. Are we with our technology going the same way as the neanderthal. I do believe we are. We lean on our technology too much and are too far removed from our natural environment. I can hunt and fish but I do so with the help of modern technology. Give me nothing more than my wits and put me out doors and I wouldn't last long. Stone age people and I mean ALL stone age people knew how to find food, make shelter, make tools and make clothing. I don't know how to do any of these things (at least not reliably), and there is a huge difference between surviving for a week until being rescued and living, thriving, and reproducing without modern technology. And that's what you need to do, you need to thrive to the point that you not only live comfortably but can reproduce and raise children. Who among us could do that without modern technology.

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                        • #13
                          for what its worth, the "interbreeding with H. sapiens" theory is looking more and more shakey.

                          They have almost entirely sequenced the Neanderthal genome, and so far, they haven't seen any of the Neanderthal genes appearing within the modern population.

                          hey Beekeeper-
                          How could Neanderthals live for 200,000 years if the earth is only 6,000 years old? Apparently these fancy- pants scientists can't do maths!
                          ;-)

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                          • #14
                            Beekeeper- I am familiar with that feeling...I feel a definite, primal connection...when I hold an artifact, say a spear point, it is a direct connection with our history and heritage as humans and hunters...

                            I picture the old ones sitting around their mammoth-dung fire, chipping away at their flints in the fire light and planning tomorrow's hunt...

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                            • #15
                              ken, I disagree, it looks more and more likely interbreeding was most likely. Look around you.

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