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Are you a "Keith" style big bullet fan or a "Cactus Jack" style small bullet high velocity fan? Why do you feel that way? Have a

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  • rudyglove27
    replied
    Agreed with Happy Myles and + 1 for you sir!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • shane
    replied
    Myles said it best in that having some unshakeable loyalty to one school or the other is foolish. Use the right guns. Use what has been proven on the particular game. Sometimes that's super fast, sometimes it's super huge, sometimes it's in the middle (my favorite).

    Leave a comment:


  • DakotaMan
    replied
    It all depends on what you are shooting. I have learned that there are big differences in game and hunting conditions that demand flexibility. Speed can't be beat for flat shooting at long range and for improving the lead calculation on running game. Good luck with a .416 Rigby on antelope and prairie dogs! The big thumpers are necessary for very thick skinned game and heavy brush conditions. Good luck with the .25-06 on Cape Buffalo!

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim in Mo
    replied
    ken I'm more on the heavy side of this debate but as far as the liquefied brain goes, it is unlikely because the heart needs to be not only hit but on the pump to force additional, and unwanted, blood to the brain, thus causing the mush effect.

    Leave a comment:


  • M1jhartman
    replied
    This question brings up the gretest part of being a shooter. When in doubt, buy both guns and both bullets. Who says you can't have your cake and eat it too?

    Leave a comment:


  • ken.mcloud
    replied
    As I have said before, I don't see why we assume that once you have enough energy to get penetration, going from a .22" size hole to a .4" size hole will somehow be more effective.

    I have seen three theories for what makes game animals quickly die:
    (ranked in order of likelihood)
    1)punching a hole in a vital organ (heart or lungs)
    2)Nervous system damage (broken spine)
    3)Hydro-static shock from bullet impact propagating through the circulatory system and liquefying the brain.

    Since the cross sectional area of the bullet increases only marginally with the big rounds, reasons 1 and 2 are essentially equally likely for any bullet that has enough energy to penetrate. (as long as we assume away things like tumbling and mushrooming which can be made to happen with almost any round)

    Only reason 3, the least likely, has its probability significantly increased by increasing the kinetic energy of the bullet. Even then, keep in mind that kinetic energy is 1/2*m*v^2, so doubling the mass only doubles the energy, doubling the velocity quadruples the energy.

    In summary, I don't see any reason to put up with all with all that recoil and those rainbow-like trajectories when a flat-shooting, shoulder friendly round can do the same thing.
    (and I'm likely to be more accurate to boot!)

    Leave a comment:


  • teufelhunden
    replied
    I will use either, if I am hunting whitetails in the open country I will grab the 22-250 or .264 Win mag. I willl step up to a .308 or '06 if I am likely to encounter any brush.

    Leave a comment:


  • Happy Myles
    replied
    As a boy, I was positive Jack O'Connor was the definitive source of all hunting, shooting information. By the time I was out of college I leaned toward Mr Keith. Now that I'm an old man. and have hunted all over the world more than both of them put together, I have my own ideas. The calibers vary depending on the task at hand, rather than a slavish loyalty to velocity or bullet weight. I have mentioned before of meeting a chap who articulately explained the modern merits of his 375 Ultra mag over my 416 Rigby, and while he was busy slicing up his eye, I was busy killing game.

    I've tried most of the new miracle calibers, but don't find they do anything better than the older ones except they often recoil harder. Here are just a few of the calibers I tend to use. Varmints-22 250; small animals- 243 or 257AI; deer-257AI, 270, 06, African plains game-06 or 300Win Mag, including things as big as Eland; Elk-300 or 338; International sheep- a 300 Win Mag, occasionally you need the added range; Cape Buffalo-416 Rigby; Lion- 338 or 375; Leopard o6 or 300; Elephant any good caliber that will shoot a minimum of 500 grain bullet well.

    Interestingly, I rarely dig out my 270 anymore, and I love that caliber. My newest rifle is a custom 30 06.

    But, don't pay any attention to me, I'm just an opinionated old curmudgeon who has been lucky enough to spend most of his ill-gotten gains hunting around the world for 60 odd years.


    Leave a comment:


  • hunt_fish_sleep
    replied
    Clay,

    I try. I recommend those 125 grain low recoiling .30-06 core lokt loads for a lot of my fellow teenagers here in NC for deer hunting. The deer here are not exceptionally large so it'll do the trick, and they all shoot the lower recoil loads far more accurately than standard loads because they're not sitting there anticipating the shot and flinching. I personally shoot 150 grain full house loads and they call me a hypocrite, but that's not true. I practice shooting my deer rifle frequently and I believe myself skilled enough to shoot the full house .30-06 loads comfortably and accurately, a statement that my "box of shells a year" friends cannot claim.

    Leave a comment:


  • bonnier-admin_2
    replied
    hunt_fish_sleep

    Very good “Grasshopper”!
    I’m impressed SIR!

    That’s why I kick tail on the 1000 yard line with my M1A open sights over the 300 Win Mags topped with extraterrestrial scopes!

    Leave a comment:


  • hunt_fish_sleep
    replied
    The .308 is a moderate recoiling cartridge and is therefore shot more accurately than bigger cartridges by average shooters. This is where your bang-flops come into play.

    Leave a comment:


  • FloridaHunter1226
    replied
    Each one has a certain purpose, so I use different bullets and calibers for different situations. Just depends on the situation at hand.

    Leave a comment:


  • bonnier-admin_2
    replied
    44 Mag I like the 250 grain Keith 21 grains of 2400

    Rifles I like the heviest bullet load that breaks the 3000fps mark!

    Leave a comment:


  • Big O
    replied
    Elmer Keith had the right "school" in my opionion."Bigger is better", and further on that thought Ruarks' school "Use enough gun". I've shot deer/elk with the .308/.30-06 and have NEVER had a problem. I've also shot deer with the .270 and had them "run for miles"(seemed so anyway).
    I think it comes down to the sectional density of the two rounds as well as shot placement. We'll see what Mr. Cooper, and Beekeeper have to say on this matter. Like "chuckles" I look forward to their replys.

    Leave a comment:


  • shane
    replied
    Huge bullets at medium velocity seems to work pretty well. They don't use hypervelocity calibers on dangerous game. They use old slow ones that launch massive bullets.

    There are a lot of things that can help kill an animal. High velocity is one, a big hole is another. Energy deposit can help, but penetration is crucial, and these things don't go together well.

    There is no better way, it seems. There are just different ways. A slow .45-70 will flatten anything just as fast as a 7mm magnum.

    JLF brings up a point that I have pondered and has been mentioned before. What is it about the .308? It is an absolute terror for any reasonably sized game it gets fired at. It's not a hypervelocity cartridge, and it doesn't exactly fling a huge projectile. So why is it so effective?

    Leave a comment:

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