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I'm thinking of getting a savage 12 btcss, is that a good accurate gun? I know it's heavy but I'm mostly going to be sitting in

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  • Safado
    replied
    DakotaMan is right on target (pun intended)! I have a Savage LRV with a heavy 26" barrel in 22-250. I can handle anything from 40 grain Vmaxs all the way to the 75 grain A maxes. I have not tried the 75 grain VLD's though. My rifle shoots all of them accurately but to different points of aim so with that rifle I mainly shoot heavy bullets. I have another 22-250 with a 1:14 twist that will not stabilize anything above 60 grains. To me the barrel is the most important thing in a varmint rifle including the twist, followed by the trigger (mine has the precision Accu-trigger) and the glass. I have a 8 x 35 Nikon on mine. If I can see it I can kill it!!

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  • PredatorBC
    replied
    Thanks for all the information! That really helps! I'll end up buying bth the nosler and the hornady bullets and testing which ones shoot better out've the rifle, and for deer I have a .270 which would probably leave a decent hole in a deer but so far both bucks I've shot with that gun have been in the neck and both does in the head! But thanks for all that information, I'm quite excited to get in to reloading, I've been saving shells from my other rifles for quite some time now! Thanks again!

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  • DakotaMan
    replied
    Looks like I was typing while you were. I think that would be a good choice. For typical varmint hunting out to 400-500 yards, you will want to use a 40g-50g bullet yielding the blazing 4100 to 3800 fps respectively. You can try V-Maxs in these weights to see which performs better in your rifle. I like the 50's; my brother likes the 40's, mainly because of accuracy in our respective rifles. The Noslers may work for you too. They just have not done as well in my rifles but others have success with them.

    The primary purpose of using the larger bullets is to get over the "pepper into the wind" slow down of these small bullets. The larger bullets start out around 200-400 fps slower than the little bullets but they hold their velocity much better because of their higher ballistic coefficient (less drag in the air).

    Bullets of this weight are LONG in .22 caliber so they can upset (de-stabilize) easily if they aren't rotating fast enough for their gyroscopic force to hold them stable. The much faster twist rate of 1 rotation in 9 inches of barrel travel is sufficient to stabilize all 68g bullets and some 75g bullets.

    I suspect you will be able to stabilize the 75g Hornady boat tail hollow point but you probably won't be able to stabilize the Hornady 75g A-Max (sorry... just a hair longer and that might be just too much for a 9 twist to handle). Nor will you be able to stabilize the Berger 75g VLD bullet (that is why Berger made the 73g bullet which will work in a 9 twist).

    Using a 9 twist, you are operating on the ragged edge of instability with a 75g bullet so you will have to test them to see which ones work. Their manufacturers can tell you if they will work. They are worth researching though because they hold velocity well enough to really extend your accuracy range. The 68g-75g bullets will extend your 22-250 accuracy out to 1000 yards because they allow you to stay supersonic all the way (over 1100 fps).

    A second advantage of the bigger bullets is that they are quite deadly for hunting deer sized game should you decide to do that. People who have not used them often feel they are too small for deer. Once they see the .308 like wound channel from one, they begin to question their opinions. By the way, I find that a 55g Combined Technology or Nosler Partition do plenty well enough to crumple a deer at 200 yards.

    Hope this helps explain things a little. Enjoy your new toy!

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  • DakotaMan
    replied
    Sorry, I must correct myself... I have seen pre-64 Model 70s that shot .2 MOA out of the box. I shot a .220 Swift that did so long ago. They were an exception but if you got one, you treasured it. The Coyote model is built to be a highly accurate varmint rifle from the ground up and probably is accurate. I just don't know from experience. I would say that they have just not yet established a reputation for providing highly accurate varmint rifles like this. I hope they are now doing so with this rifle. Such a reputation will follow a decade or two of consistent performance.

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  • PredatorBC
    replied
    I think I'm going to go with the savage VLP DBM, that way I can get that 1:9 twist you guys talked about earlier, I'm planning on starting to reload and am have decided on a .22-250, I'm planning on using either the nosler varmint ballistic tips or the hornady v-max as I've heard good things about them both. What is the difference between a 50 gr. bullet and a 60? I know it's heavier but what does that do?

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  • DakotaMan
    replied
    Good advice from EJP. I shoot a lot of .223 because it is so inexpensive. I pick up brass and get V-Max bullets for around 15 cents apiece. 100 cases last a lifetime in either of these two cartridges. I've picked up several thousand .223 cases. I've prepped them, weighed them, and sorted them and they are very accurate. I know the ballistics and which mil-dot to use for each range and windage so I can shoot p-dogs right on out to 500 yards easy. I just like the extra speed of the 22-250 for running game within 200 yards.

    In response to your question... I haven't shot the M70 coyotes so can not speak to that. Generally Winchester has made some fine hunting rifles in the M70 but none have been well known for their varmint level accuracy. This rifle could be great. It sure looks the part and probably does better than their deer rifles. I don't know the twist rate and would prefer not to get one in 12 twist. The Tikka T3 is out of the box accurate. They may not be quite to the same level of accuracy as the Savage Varminters but they should be quite close. Last year, of about a dozen $1500-$2000 varmint rifles on a p-dog hunt, a simple old $600 Tikka T3 outshot them all. That was a .243 with 58g V-Max at about .2 MOA. That was exceptionally good but Tikkas often provide sufficient accuracy for good varmint hunting.

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  • Edward J. Palumbo
    replied
    Both cartridge choices are excellent and I can highly recommend either. For purely practical reasons (cost of components, availability of brass) I think the .223 will serve you well. I own both and my last purchase of .22-250 brass was a case of "sticker shock" at $42/100. I paid as much for .30-'06 brass! But a bag of .223 brass was $29/100 (and I find that difficult to accept). Over the long term, that adds up. If money is no object, then the .22-250 would be my recommendation, since it's difficult to improve upon as a .22 centerfire cartridge.

    Leave a comment:


  • jhjimbo
    replied
    I have the Remington 700 varmint in 22-250 and although not completely broken in it is doing very good. Picture of gun and target on my profile.

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  • PredatorBC
    replied
    My friend got a Remington 700 Sps varmint and we are going to have a shooting competition also, I was also looking at the Winchester model 70 coyote and the tikka t3 varmint edition at wholesale sports will those rifles provide the same accuracy as the savages?

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  • PredatorBC
    replied
    My friend got a Remington 700 Sps varmint and we are going to have a shooting competition also, I was also looking at the Winchester model 70 coyote and the tikka t3 varmint edition at wholesale sports will those rifles provide the same accuracy as the savages?

    Leave a comment:


  • DakotaMan
    replied
    The Savage 12 varmint rifles are top notch. Accuracy is ALL that counts and they have it. In the bolt rifle the 22-250 will give you more speed and you will learn to love that for varmints. Although the .223 does fine for me out to 500 yards and it is cheap to load.

    I strongly agree with Safado that you need to get a 9 twist in 22-250 (not that crumby 12 twist)to stabilize the wonderful long range bullets now available. You will have to get a 12 VLP DBM for that twist. You will be able to shoot up to 68g-75g bullets that way and 1000 yard shots will be a possibility depending on your scope and your expertise. That will also make it a deer crusher if you so desire. Get a good scope. The Leupold VX3 6-20x50 is outstanding. I prefer that magnification for a varminter like that. If you can see it, you can hit it with that rifle and you will be able to see the cross hairs on a woodchuck's head at 1000 yards with that. Think of 600-1000 yards as in range.

    In that rifle, I'd also give serious consideration to the .243. With 58g V-Max bullets at 3900 fps, it makes a 22-250 look slow at 500 yards. In that 26" barrel, it will be a deer thumper too with larger bullets. I recommend hand loading the Hornady V-Max bullets in all these cartridges. They will be your most accurate.

    By the way, I'm shooting the Rem 700 Sendero in 25-06 for the same purpose. .25" groups and hits running coyotes and antelope right where the cross hairs are. The 75g bullets at 3750 fps out-perform the 22-250 beyond 400 yards and the 115g Berger VLDs make a 1000 yard shot pretty nice. I think those Savage Varminters are just as good though if not better. Good luck with your new toy!

    Leave a comment:


  • Montana
    replied
    I have a Savage Model 12 FV chambered in 22-250, yes it is heavy, but it is incredibly accurate. I didn't care for the accutrigger at first but after a few hundred rounds at prairie dogs I have grudgingly learned to love it. Recoil, what recoil? Topped mine with a Redfield 3x9x50, factory loads between .5 and .75 inches, just getting into reloading so I am sure that that will improve. I enjoy the looks of the BTCSS but in my honest opinion the FV is the better value.

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  • jhjimbo
    replied
    Model 10XP Predator package is camo and has a 4X12 scope installed and bore sighted. $950 complete.

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  • FirstBubba
    replied
    Regardless of which caliber you choose, a Lee Loader is a kick in the gas!

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  • Safado
    replied
    I have a heavy barrled Savage in 22-250 that is perfect for varmints. It's heavy, extremely accurate with no recoil. I can see the hits through the scope. Mine has a 1:9 twist barrel so I can shoot heavy and light bullets. Go for it!

    Leave a comment:

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