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  • #16
    Well stated Bubba. That is pretty.much the definition of the word ‘lease’ !

    And there is always someone with more money that will cause the price of a lease to go up until it is beyond the ability of the average hunter to endure.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by bowhunter75richard View Post
      Well stated Bubba. That is pretty.much the definition of the word ‘lease’ !

      And there is always someone with more money that will cause the price of a lease to go up until it is beyond the ability of the average hunter to endure.
      One of the things that drove lease prices up was "corporate" leases.
      Companies like Frito-Lay, Dr. Pepper, Coca Cola, Alcoa, etc, would come in and pay exorbitant prices for entire ranches, construct bunkhouse, etc for exclusive hunting rights. They would even institute management programs.
      They could charge it all off as "corporate entertainment".
      Lease prices (dollar/acre) began to climb.

      The quail population in south Texas is really great. I knew guys who would spend $1500/$2500 a year for a "deer" lease and only hunt quail.

      P.S. - quail hunting in south Texas is almost an industry unto itself. But deer and quail management go hand in hand and pays landowners almost as much.

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      • #18
        From jhjimbo: "How long is the doe productive ? Is the beeding open range or controlled in a pen ?"

        Average breeding life of a doe would be between 4 and 5 years, they start to breed at about 16 months. Like cows, each doe is an individual, some being viable breeders even at 6 years, or older. You can tell old does by the length of their head and neck, and also a slight swayback, though this is not as noticeable in does as in bucks. Some deer maintain their appearance of being younger better than others, depending on feed availability, genetics and seasonal conditions through her lifetime.
        We try to shoot "dry" does, who have either failed to fawn, or already weaned a fawn. Button bucks are frowned on, and careful scrutiny of heads and ears is required to determine which is what, sometimes.
        All breeding of does and bucks is open range, with the single exception that I know of, of the AIed does being brought in two years ago.

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        • #19
          '06,
          Could NOT figure out what an "Aled" doe was! LOL!
          Finally dawned on me! A.I. - artificially inseminated! A.I.'d

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          • #20
            Good conversation guys.

            Living in an area of decimated dairy farms I’m sympathetic towards trying to maintain a lifestyle doing what you have to. I suppose it’s the business side of things that muddies the waters. It’s easy to pigeon hole based on assumptions but the reality is every outfit is an entity of itself. Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it might be something to keep in mind.

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            • #21
              Around here, they do the same thing with pheasants. Fancy lodge, guides and dogs, pen raised birds, even golf and fishing.

              When I was in high school, a neighbor figured out how to fleece the desperate "otta staters". He would charge $50, pack them to a field or slough, run 20* or so through one time, and at the end you got the daily limit of 3 birds whether you fired a shot or not. If there weren't enough to go around, a CB call to another bunch brought a pickup roaring up and enough birds were dropped off to make up the difference.
              *20 is the max in a pheasant party, blockers and walkers.

              For several years, the GF&P brought in other state's game wardens to check the rumors that had been going around for years. Embedded them in hunting parties he ran. Big time bust for him, his 2 sons, his brother and several hired hands. 35 violations of all sorts of game laws about birds and deer for him alone. He did 10 days jail time for each of 3 years pheasant openers and l forget how much fines and license loss.

              After the trial, he maintained his innocence and said, "They've been trying to catch me for 40 years".

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              • #22
                Originally posted by crm3006 View Post
                From jhjimbo: "How long is the doe productive ? Is the beeding open range or controlled in a pen ?"

                Average breeding life of a doe would be between 4 and 5 years, they start to breed at about 16 months. Like cows, each doe is an individual, some being viable breeders even at 6 years, or older. You can tell old does by the length of their head and neck, and also a slight swayback, though this is not as noticeable in does as in bucks. Some deer maintain their appearance of being younger better than others, depending on feed availability, genetics and seasonal conditions through her lifetime.
                We try to shoot "dry" does, who have either failed to fawn, or already weaned a fawn. Button bucks are frowned on, and careful scrutiny of heads and ears is required to determine which is what, sometimes.
                All breeding of does and bucks is open range, with the single exception that I know of, of the AIed does being brought in two years ago.
                Why shoot button bucks ?

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                • #23
                  From jhjimbo: "Why shoot button bucks ?"

                  We don't, except on rare occasions, by accident.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by jhjimbo View Post

                    Why shoot button bucks ?
                    Because they are tender, tasty and there are so many of them! 😉!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by crm3006 View Post
                      From reading some of the preceding posts, I think some clarification is in order for some of our bloggers. There is a wide spread of difference in hunting a high fence ranch, and a canned hunt.
                      I hunt a high fence ranch every year. The owner manages his deer herd like some manage cattle, knowing, within reason, his buck/doe ratio, and how many of either need to be killed off to maintain the herd to its optimum output of trophy deer, which his big money clients want to shoot.
                      Not being a trophy hunter, and having very little interest in hanging heads on my wall, myself and my group hunt old does, or what the owner considers cull bucks. I am a meat on the table kind of hunter, so that suits me fine.
                      However, this is what would be termed fair chase hunting, as there is no guarantee that a shootable animal will be seen, especially on an acreage covering +/- 1700 acres. That is a little over 2½ square miles. Plenty of room for a whitetail deer to roam free, as they generally don't travel far from where they were born, given that no natural conditions such as drouth, flood, or forest fire move them.
                      Also, high fence does not necessarily keep deer in. If a deer wants out, an eight foot fence is seldom an obstacle. An eight foot fence does provide somewhat of a barrier to invasive species, but, there again, an animal wanting either in, or out, will find a way.
                      Canned hunts, on the other hand, are like the honkster brags about going on, in Africa. He has a professional hunter, a game scout, a gunbearer, and does most of the "hunting" from a jeep or hunting car. Drive to the pre-scouted location, get out, walk a few klicks, or less, and shoot an animal with a back up gunner standing right by your side. Then, professional skinners take over, skinning and capeing your "trophy", possibly distributing meat to the needy, possibly leaving the carcass to the buzzards. Fair chase? Not in my book. But, back in the safe environs of the good old USA, or even Canaja, one can say, "When I hunted in Africa....."
                      So, the way I see it, there is a lot of difference in high fence and canned hunting. Without the freedom of multiple pastures and tolerant neighbors like I used to roam, I am forced to pay the fee for high fence hunting, with no guarantee of success, or not hunt.




                      I learned a thing or two here, among them the mistake of throwing around terms (and/or lumping them together when I don't have any experience with either one). Good joke on me; I don't usually do that and I get annoyed when others do it with things I'm familiar with. I appreciate your making me better informed than I was.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by MattM37 View Post

                        I learned a thing or two here, among them the mistake of throwing around terms (and/or lumping them together when I don't have any experience with either one). Good joke on me; I don't usually do that and I get annoyed when others do it with things I'm familiar with. I appreciate your making me better informed than I was.
                        MattM37
                        Here's a list of the ten biggest (acreage wise) ranches in Texas. There are MANY ranches out in West Texas and the Big Bend area that start at 10 sections up to a hundred sections.

                        https://www.wideopencountry.com/10-b...texas-ranches/

                        There are deer, cattle AND people that live their entire life and never leave ranch property.
                        The King Ranch, the largest in Texas (over 800k acres) has high fence areas where they raise exotic game and "Yes!", some of those "pay by the inch" whitetails that can cost $10k to $20k!!!!
                        ...but their main business is STILL cattle.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          A trophy is in the eye of the beholder. I have a little 5 point buck I’m proud as punch of. First deer I harvested in Arkansas. Back when I poor and all I had was a muzzleloader. Got a lot of good natured ribbing about that rifle. But after seeing how well I could shoot it. The ribbing stopped. I would shoot and about 30 minutes later one of the cousins would come easing my way with a 4 wheeler because there was normally something to haul to the truck. And it didn’t hurt that I once rolled a doe at about 50 yards she was in a dead run pure luck but I wasn’t going to tell anyone else any different.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Milldawg View Post
                            A trophy is in the eye of the beholder. I have a little 5 point buck I’m proud as punch of. First deer I harvested in Arkansas. Back when I poor and all I had was a muzzleloader. Got a lot of good natured ribbing about that rifle. But after seeing how well I could shoot it. The ribbing stopped. I would shoot and about 30 minutes later one of the cousins would come easing my way with a 4 wheeler because there was normally something to haul to the truck. And it didn’t hurt that I once rolled a doe at about 50 yards she was in a dead run pure luck but I wasn’t going to tell anyone else any different.
                            I shot a doe and she took off running and honest to God she ran about 30yds to within 20' of my vehicle.

                            Comment

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