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  • "... At least we can all agree that AR's are totally worthless for hunting, and to be avoided at all costs. ..."

    FIE UPON THEE, amflyer!
    ...and may the fleas of a thousand camels invest in your armpits!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by MattM37 View Post

      Thank you, Ernie. I figured I'd finally ask, since Creedmoor conversations always seem so much more heated than the old "270 or 30-06," which really nobody seems to discuss anymore except as a joke. I got the idea that it was always just more of a joking thing, but probably over the decades, every new development has sparked similar debate as the Creedmoor's doing now -- only the advent of social media and internet forums has simply made it more of a bee's nest.

      I have a stack of FS and OL from the 1940s and 50s. I think I'll go through them and see what cartridges were being argued about back then. Anyone got a guess (or actually remember)?
      In some ways it’s much bigger of a discussion, then the older 06 and 270 discussions, as the 6.5 Creedmoor is also being used in F class, which is kind of a belly benchrest competition, but shot prone, it was very popular in the PRS world, which is the long range tactical steel matches and competitions like that.
      Obviously it is being used a big game, and it is used for varminting as well.
      the 6 Creedmoor is also extremely popular, and it became even more popular than the 6.5 creed for these steel shoots I was talking about. With a 131 grain black jack bullets, the 25 creed has also been used in the long range steel matches, and in F class.
      The 22 creed has picked up such popularity that companies are making Brass specifically for that as well even though it is and the 25 Cal are the newcomers among the Creed line Cartridges.
      22 Creed, 6 Creed, 25 Creed, and 6.5 Creed combined together have taken the short range and LR varminting , hunting, and competition world by storm.
      personally, I really enjoy shooting my 22 and 6mm Creed Specialty Pistols.
      To top all of that off, the 6Creed and 6.5 Creedmoor factory ammo at least by Hornady, and a few other companies is so accurate, I can shoot groups in the .1 to .2, and at least sub half inch group at 100 yards from almost any of my guns that are chambered in them.
      I am not at 6.5 Creedmoor fanboy, because it is not my favorite cartridge whatsoever. It does feel a really good niche, because Hornady did such a good job in its marketing, and giving gun companies solid specs for consistent chambers, throats, twist rate of barrels etc.
      no, after reading more of this, you can see why people who don’t like anything new, tend to hate this cartridge even more because it is so popular, for so many reasons. Regardless of its popularity it is just a cartridge.
      There’s nothing magic about it.
      It does not shoot the fastest or the slowest.
      As a short action cartridge it’s just well-designed, supported, and marketed

      Comment


      • From Ernie: ".......you can see why people who don’t like anything new, tend to hate this cartridge even more because it is so popular, for so many reasons. Regardless of its popularity it is just a cartridge.
        There’s nothing magic about it.
        It does not shoot the fastest or the slowest.
        As a short action cartridge it’s just well-designed, supported, and marketed."


        Let me be perfectly clear! I don't specifically "hate" any cartridge, except possibly the 7.62 X 39 mm. I just don't think the 6.5 CM fills any niche in my rifle battery. Between the .22-250, .25-06, .308, and the .30-'06, there just isn't any need or space for a 6.5 offering, no matter how well hyped and marketed. As Ernie so aptly points out, there is nothing magic about it, and I am at the point that I will use what I have, all of which have served me well for decades. If you are the type that likes the latest and greatest, or want to try something new, or just want to see if the 6.5 CM lives up to the gun writer's praise and adoration, by all means, go for it. Last time I looked, the Old Ugly '06 had upwards of 60 marks for deer and elk killed, the .25-06 had fifteen or so, and there is no way to count the hogs and coyotes the pair have laid down. I just don't see the need to add anything to that.

        Comment


        • Well-rounded battery of cartridges

          Comment


          • Need had nothing to do with it when I got a 6.5 CM. Already had several firearms in that power range and I'm not recoil shy. I don't shoot far enough to take advantage of the Creed's long range capabilities. Nor did I have anyone in the family needing a low recoiling deer rifle... yet.

            However, I wanted a Ruger American and have always been interested in having something like the 6.5 Swede. A factory threaded barrel for suppressor is a bonus. Besides all that, the rifle I got was on sale.

            In the field, I've been very pleased with 0.5 MOA groups and the 6.5 CM's performance on deer and pigs. So much so that I've considered getting rid of most of my other deer rifles. The American may ultimately become my only deer rifle if I live another couple of decades.

            Besides all that, the 6.5 CM makes a great cartridge for new or young hunters. Heck, I may give it to some woman or kid if they show enough interest in using it.
            Last edited by PigHunter; 06-08-2021, 06:28 PM.

            Comment


            • PigHunter’s post is a pretty good description of “The same song, and 298th verse…😁” of the reasons why people buy a 6.5 Creedmoor

              Comment


              • Not being well versed in guns, I am at a loss to understand why calibers which have very similar capabilities in regards to performance and killing ability on game, have such differences of recoil. If the powder charge is comparable in the ability to deliver a bullet with very similar ratings, why is the 6.5CM much more comfortable to shoot because of lighter recoil ? Please be kind in your answer to a non shooter !

                Comment


                • In the short action cartridges (the Creedmoor is a short action cartridge), there is not going to much difference for cases that have similar case capacity (as long as the caliber and or the bullet weight is the same). Example the 243 Winchester (308 Winchester case necked down to 6mm/.244), 6mm Creed, and the 6XC are extremely close to each other in case capacity. If each of them is shooting a 100 grain bullet, and the rifles weigh the same, you will not be able to tell much difference, IF, stock design/recoil pad is the same.
                  A good number older hunting rifles that were real popular, are longer cases that require a long action. Some of those favorites are the 270 Winchester and the 30-06. Because the caliber is larger, the better bullets for game lean toward the mid to heavier weights for the caliber. In rifles designed for hunting that weigh the same weight as the hunting rifles above, their recoil is going to be more because of more case capacity and heavier weight bullets.
                  Even, if you take the 243 Winchester or a 6 Creed in a 7-8 pound rifle with a 100 grain bullet and you have a 308 Winchester (243 Winchester case necked up to 30 caliber), shooting a 165 grain bullet in a 7-8 pound rifle, the recoil is noticeably more, everything else being equal.

                  The 6.5 CM will use from a 120 grain to a 140 grain for most applications in terms of hunting.
                  the 260 Remington (308 Winchester necked down to 6.5) won't have much faster velocities all things being equal in a short action rifle, even though the 260 has more case capacity.
                  If you compare the two head to head in a single shot action that is properly throated, the 260 Remington will out run the 6.5 Creed even more, but in a box magazine you can't tell much difference.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by bowhunter75richard View Post
                    Not being well versed in guns, I am at a loss to understand why calibers which have very similar capabilities in regards to performance and killing ability on game, have such differences of recoil. If the powder charge is comparable in the ability to deliver a bullet with very similar ratings, why is the 6.5CM much more comfortable to shoot because of lighter recoil ? Please be kind in your answer to a non shooter !
                    bhr, way back when, Remington came out with their 5mm Remington "rimfire" cartridge!
                    It was all the rage and gunwriters everywhere began ringing a death knell for the .22LR!
                    This new "hyper" velocity cartridge was THE "cat's meow"..... 'til squirrel hunters began dissolving squirrels with the thing. I'm not sure you can even FIND Remington 5mm rimfire ammo anymore!?
                    It died a slow agonizing death.
                    Same thing with the 8mm Rem Mag. Gonna put the .300 Win Mag and the .338 Win Mag into the "obsolete" category!
                    Seen an 8mm Rem Mag lately?
                    Neither have I!

                    There is a contingency of shooters who want to try everything new that comes out in a futile search for "The" perfect cartridge.

                    Every camp has that, "If you ain't shootin' a Whiz Bang 80-0-80 in .298 Crippler, you don't know squat!"

                    I wonder how many times lately some "newbie" drug his DIY AR into camp and old Herb threw a hissy fit and cancelled his lease!
                    "I ain't huntin' with anybody totin' a assault rifle!"

                    I used to be a .270 Win or nothing guy.
                    Now I shoot an AR in .277 caliber and really couldn't care less what the other guy shoots. But if it doesn't kill deer, I'm not going to keep helping chase down your cripples.

                    As long as they make cases that can be cut down, blow out, necked up or otherwise altered, somebody will give it a whirl! LOL!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by FirstBubba View Post
                      Every camp has that, "If you ain't shootin' a Whiz Bang 80-0-80 in .298 Crippler, you don't know squat!"
                      I love this, and it is so true

                      Comment


                      • It ends up being a fruitless discussion trying to deal with someone negative towards the 6.5 Creedmoor. I've seen it over several outdoors platforms. It mainly comes down to this for their motivations:

                        1) They didn't like the 'Hype' about the cartridge when all the gun writers were promoting like it was the best ever. This animosity was transferred to anyone who adopted and liked the cartridge. Why this stepped on their toes was varied, but it generally came down to either they were contrary by nature or they thought it was an affront to their pet cartridges.

                        2) They didn't see the 'need' for it since there are so many other cartridges in the same power range. This was stepping on their pet cartridges again.

                        3) The hype and popularity took away resources from already established cartridges. For example, ammo and available firearms in .260 Remington quickly got scarce. The same can be said for other chamberings. Manufacturers seemed to not want to invest in making products that are not as popular. Who could have guessed that?

                        4) They thought some 6.5 CM users were pushing the limits and probably shooting at game too far away. YouTube videos of such long-range successes and good results in Africa just fueled the fire for their anger.

                        5) Some thought it was cute to create and share jokes and Memes questioning the masculinity and sanity of anyone shooting or liking the cartridge. The more it bothered legitimate users, the more delight they seemed to have in that bullying tactic.

                        It's been years now and the 6.5 Creedmoor has eclipsed the 6.5 Swede and .260 Remington. Some people who loved those cartridges or at least appreciated them will continue talking down the Creed, usually mentioning case capacity and such. But all three perform almost identically on game so once again it becomes an emotional thing.

                        I personally know the 6.5 CM works very well in the field for my kind of hunting. If it hadn't come along I may have gotten a rifle in 6.5 Swede, .260 Remington, 7mm-08, or 257 Roberts and been just as happy.

                        Comment



                        • .298 Crippler...
                          Phht! Neck it up to .338 caliber and blow the shoulder to 30 degrees, then you'd have something worth shootin'.





                          Comment


                          • Just give me a 33XC or a 375CT…. Anything less than that will probably bounce off the deer or they’ll not do a good job of killing

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by PigHunter View Post
                              It ends up being a fruitless discussion trying to deal with someone negative towards the 6.5 Creedmoor. I've seen it over several outdoors platforms. It mainly comes down to this for their motivations:

                              1) They didn't like the 'Hype' about the cartridge when all the gun writers were promoting like it was the best ever. This animosity was transferred to anyone who adopted and liked the cartridge. Why this stepped on their toes was varied, but it generally came down to either they were contrary by nature or they thought it was an affront to their pet cartridges.

                              2) They didn't see the 'need' for it since there are so many other cartridges in the same power range. This was stepping on their pet cartridges again.

                              3) The hype and popularity took away resources from already established cartridges. For example, ammo and available firearms in .260 Remington quickly got scarce. The same can be said for other chamberings. Manufacturers seemed to not want to invest in making products that are not as popular. Who could have guessed that?

                              4) They thought some 6.5 CM users were pushing the limits and probably shooting at game too far away. YouTube videos of such long-range successes and good results in Africa just fueled the fire for their anger.

                              5) Some thought it was cute to create and share jokes and Memes questioning the masculinity and sanity of anyone shooting or liking the cartridge. The more it bothered legitimate users, the more delight they seemed to have in that bullying tactic.

                              It's been years now and the 6.5 Creedmoor has eclipsed the 6.5 Swede and .260 Remington. Some people who loved those cartridges or at least appreciated them will continue talking down the Creed, usually mentioning case capacity and such. But all three perform almost identically on game so once again it becomes an emotional thing.

                              I personally know the 6.5 CM works very well in the field for my kind of hunting. If it hadn't come along I may have gotten a rifle in 6.5 Swede, .260 Remington, 7mm-08, or 257 Roberts and been just as happy.
                              pighunter, I don't like the CreedMore, or is it Crede Moore? Or Creed Moor?
                              Hell, I don't know! It's just too damned hard to spell!

                              Had an older gentleman come in our shop one day (late 70's) wanting to look at a rifle for his son.
                              His only requisite was that it be "American" made and an "American" cartridge. He had been in WWII and DID NOT want anything made overseas.
                              Trying to get a "feel" for what he might be looking for, the shop owner asked him what he shot.
                              The answer was immediate and sharp, "A 6.5 Schmidt-Rubin!"

                              Comment


                              • P.S. - pighunter, I really couldn't care less about the 6.5 CM.
                                Heck, if I was in the market for a low recoil, bolt action, deer capable cartridge, I'd give the 6.5CM a long, hard look.
                                If a cartridge like the 6.5CM provides a platform that will help get beginning shooters and hunters to the range or afield, "brang it on!".
                                I've got an AR10 in .308. I would also take an AR10 in 6.5CM, but my .308 is so danged heavy....! 😜!

                                Comment

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