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Pig Hunting - Guns and Loads

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  • Thanks for taking the time PH to go into the explanation of recoil difference. So, actually what we are looking at here, is pretty much, less powder to deliver a lighter projectile with almost equal affects of the bigger caliber rifles, and thus done so with less recoil. As Bubby would say. Easy Peasy.........I guess.

    And thanks to others who attempted to educate this dumb gun person.

    Comment


    • [QUOTE=bowhunter75richard;n773272] ... difference of recoil of the 6.5CM from that of other big game cartridges. No one actually answered that question.......so, what allows the recoil of a 6.5CM to be much less than a 270, 30-06 or other big game rifle ? If the 6.5CM is a capable rifle for big game, why the lesser recoil from other rifles ? Is it powder charge QUOTE]

      The article from Pig hunter nailed it.
      For practical comparisons lets assume same rifle weight and look at the
      30-06 compared to the 6.5 CM

      Average bullet weight: 165g vs 147g (the 6.5 actually penetrates better) major recoil factor

      Top velocity: 2900 vs 2670 major recoil factor

      Powder charge (H4350) 58.9g vs 41g major recoil factor

      The short/fat cartridge design of the 6.5 CM allows more efficient propellent usage. This means less powder for the same power. Although all these are significant recoil components, the powder charge component is probably the most significant. A very small amount of powder makes a big difference in recoil. If you think powder weight itself should not make a difference, try lighting a stick of dynamite and throw it in the back of your truck. You will see there is actually quite an impact.

      Both of these cartridges support a wide range of bullets and the recoil starts out relatively low with the small bullets and gets relatively heavy with the largest bullets. I can shoot a light recoil 130g 30-06 bullet at 3100 fps with similar recoil to the 6.5 CM using a 155.5g bullet. Other recoil factors to consider:

      1. If you do a LOT of shooting (say target shooting, competition, varmint shooting), even a .308 will severely bruise your shoulder and wear you out. You would rarely do this with a 30-06 but it is common with 6.5 CM and .308.

      2. Long range shooting favors use of the heaviest bullet for caliber to maximize ballistic coefficient. Shooting these FAST produces high recoil. I love my low recoil 25-06 for deer hunting but when I switch from 100g bullets to 131g bullets, recoil becomes too high to enjoy after only few shots. T

      3. Recoil pads, muzzle brakes and suppressors make a BIG difference in felt recoil. Once I installed a Limbsaver on the 25 CM, I felt little recoil. When I add a muzzle brake, I can spot my own shots because the reticle stays on the target and I can see the bullet hit... great for long range varmint shooting.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by bowhunter75richard View Post
        Thanks for taking the time PH to go into the explanation of recoil difference. So, actually what we are looking at here, is pretty much, less powder to deliver a lighter projectile with almost equal affects of the bigger caliber rifles, and thus done so with less recoil. As Bubby would say. Easy Peasy.........I guess.

        And thanks to others who attempted to educate this dumb gun person.
        Pretty much.
        The heavier the projectile, the more "felt recoil".
        There is an entire industry formed around reducing "felt" recoil.
        Recoil pads, muzzle brakes, etc!

        Comment


        • Rifle weight is indeed a big factor. My brother has a 5.5lb 300 Win Mag he's carried to Africa several times. On my brother's first safari, the PH nicknamed it "The Beast" because of the recoil.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by PigHunter View Post
            Rifle weight is indeed a big factor. My brother has a 5.5lb 300 Win Mag he's carried to Africa several times. On my brother's first safari, the PH nicknamed it "The Beast" because of the recoil.
            Believe it or not, stock design is also a big recoil factor. A poorly designed stock will absolutely beat you to death.
            Even Weatherby's big Mag calibers aren't that vicious due to a very well designed stock.

            Comment


            • The more "overkill" a cartridge is, the more it recoils.

              I started out shooting a 25-06 with relatively light recoil using 75g-100g bullets and have shot it very successfully for over 50 years. I used it for varmints to mule deer very successfully. Over that time, my range on p-dogs extended from 400 yards out to 1000 yards. I added a .300 Dakota to my collection many years ago and I still favor that for 1000 yard elk but I don't need that for too many shots a year.

              In the last decade, I have shot those two rifles very little while I put thousands of rounds each year on the following:

              .223 with 75g-90g bullets: killer within 600 yards or so. Cheap and NO recoil in a 12 pound rifle. Muzzle brake used to eliminate need for spotter as 1000 yard shots are walked in.

              6mm AR+: with 105g bullets: 1000 yard steel all day and little felt recoil in a 10 pound AR.

              6mm Dasher: with 105g bullets: F-Class killer and 1000 yard p-dog slayer. No recoil in a 21.5 pound rifle.

              6mm Creedmoor: with 105g bullets: 1000 yard p-dog slayer. No recoil with muzzle brake in 14 pound rifle. Only get 1500 rounds per barrel but 2 or 3 times that if you own a lathe.

              I shoot many more but have learned to appreciate the comfort and precision associated with shooting these lighter recoiling cartridges.

              The 25-06 and .300 Dakota are now used for 2 shots annually: check zero; shoot game. The are great for that.


              Comment


              • My Creedmoor is a .257 Roberts by name. The .007” not a big deal. The 6.5’s do have a better bullet selection. My Big Creedmoor is a 7x57….

                Stock geometry and rifle weight are huge factors in felt recoil. My Weatherby lightweight ‘06 has about the same felt recoil as my 9 1/2 lb .300 Weatherby shooting the same weight bullet. I don’t spend a lot of time at the range with either rifle.

                Comment


                • My 6.5 Creedmoor is a .25-06. I don't need a great variety of bullet selection, the 115 gr. NBT has killed everything I have ever shot with it.

                  Comment


                  • Then my 6.5 CM is s 6.8mm Rem SPC in AR platform.
                    It's taken deer and pigs.
                    No complaints so far!

                    Comment


                    • Seems to me, from the last three answers to the 6.5 CM, there are a lot of calibrations out there that will work just fine, without running out to buy the latest and greatest super hyped, jumped up, gun writer approved Miracle Whiz-bang brought out in the last month, to lure in unsuspecting gun owners who just do not realize that their tried and true rifle and cartridge load will not stop killing game, immediately upon the release of the above mentioned gun writer approved Miracle Whiz-bang.
                      The .257 Roberts was introduced in 1934.
                      Mr.
                      A. O. Niedner of Dowagiac, Michigan introduced rifles for the .25 Niedner in 1920, and Remington finally came out with a factory loading in 1969.
                      The 6.8mm Rem SPC, (Special Purpose Cartridge), hit the shelves in about 2004.
                      That is a lot of time, and a lot of game shot with three rounds that are arguably as good as the much ballyhooed 6.5 CM.
                      However, there are those that like to keep looking for that something better, those that like experimentation, and those that just like trying something new. More power to you, but, personally, my safe is full.

                      Comment


                      • I've never heard of nor read of anyone being told to get rid of their existing rifles and replacing them with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Why do you guys think that? Geez

                        Comment


                        • PigHunter: It is the tone of some of the gun rag articles, and authors, that imply that. Also, I have run into a few Woodsman Willies at the range that say there is no other round except the 6.5 Creed. You know, the guys that get dressed in full tactical and camo just to go burn rounds at paper?

                          Comment


                          • I also call that type of person a Tactical Ted or a Mall Ninja...
                            Wannbe is another one
                            Last edited by Ernie; 06-14-2021, 04:05 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Last 3 posts!
                              '06, pighunter, Ernie

                              Have encountered way more of those in the past than I care to remember! 😖
                              Even on this site, people whom I consider quite knowledgeable, sometimes blurt out how one cartridge or another is either overkill or inadequate. (????)

                              To each, his own!

                              Comment


                              • I have killed wildebeeste, warthog, and antelope out to 200 yards, and deer to about the same distance with a 357 Magnum revolver...and I used a center-grip 7mm Dakota XP-100 with a 200 grain ULD with a aluminum machined tip for prairie dog shooting.
                                Use what you want!
                                Killing ain't that hard, if you put the bullet where it belongs.

                                Comment

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