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  • Fast shots?

    The object of this thread is to push back the forged documents spammer and put something besides political drivel up on the "New Topics" page.

    I read something over in a recent blog by shotgun editor Phil B to the effect that fast shooting is over rated. What's your thoughts? I'm talking hunting here, not the range ... where three-gun shooting and Rambo wannabe millenials playing with black guns seems to be the current rage.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Ontario Honker Hunter View Post
    The object of this thread is to push back the forged documents spammer and put something besides political drivel up on the "New Topics" page.

    I read something over in a recent blog by shotgun editor Phil B to the effect that fast shooting is over rated. What's your thoughts? I'm talking hunting here, not the range ... where three-gun shooting and Rambo wannabe millenials playing with black guns seems to be the current rage.
    Hey now, black rifles are legitimate hunting arms. So far I've killed 4 deer with mine.

    OHH, as you know, I'm not much of a wing shot with a shotgun. However, I use long arms when hunting by slipping through the Southern woods or when sitting in a blind, waiting on deer or pigs. Typically, I fire within two to three seconds once I identify it's a shootable animal.

    In thick undergrowth, often you will only get about 7 seconds to make the shot. So you better not waste time. I've got a Chemical Engineer buddy who can't do it because he takes too long to make decisions. He's better off sitting on a food plot and shooting at feeding game.

    EDIT: I once did some fast shooting at pigs with my old Remington 788 bolt action in .308 Win. Dropped the running sow first and then two of her offspring, getting off shots as fast as I could work the bolt.
    Last edited by PigHunter; 07-07-2020, 03:27 PM.
    Trump 2020 - Keep America Great!

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    • #3
      Fast shooting?
      Are you speaking of engaging several targets quickly or what I would call an "instinct" shot?

      I walked up on a creek bank once and spotted 3 wood ducks probably 60 yards away.
      A hen was standing on top of a snag about 10" above the water with a drake on each side.
      I turned, mounted the shotgun and fired at the hen on the snag.
      They apparently saw me about the same time I saw them and flushed.
      The hen successfully departed the snag, but the drake on the left in my sight picture smacked into the pattern as he crossed in front of the snag!

      I'm not real keen on "spray & pray" with my AR. Too many years of shooting bolt guns and single shots.

      The quickest I've ever killed 2 deer was with a Ruger No.1 single shot.
      Three deer showed up at the fence.
      The first doe jumped the fence about 80 yards away and began grazing.
      At the shot, she dropped like a rock and the muzzle rise showed me the second doe's feet in the top of the 4Γ— scope. Apparently the shot spooked her and her reaction was to "jump"! I went about getting the gun unloaded, a shell out of the stock sleeve, into the chamber and the action closed.
      When I looked back through the scope, the second doe was probably another 50 yards away, standing broadside.
      Squeeze, bang!
      She dropped too!
      I sat back, reloaded the rifle and looked down to check how much ammo was still in the ammo sleeve.
      When I looked up to check on the 2 deer I had shot, a THIRD doe was sniffing the first deer!
      Two was enough!
      It was nearly dark and it was cold. It was going to be nearly 10pm before I could go to bed.
      Besides, I already had 2 to field dress!
      My estimation would be at least 5 seconds and no more than 10 seconds between shots.

      Dove hunting is another one of those activities that teach one control.

      Hunting over some semi standing corn, I had knocked down one bird and was retrieving it.
      Just as I stepped up to my dead bird, a dove flushed from the knee deep morass of the corn. I dusted that bird just as a second bird was landing and I dusted that bird!
      An absolutley perfect double!
      I spent the next 30 minutes stomping around in the corn. I never did find either bird!
      After that, it was kill ONE, retrieve ONE! No more doubles for me!

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      • #4
        Honk, have you even checked back on this thread?

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        • #5
          If you are hunting, the faster you shoot, the more you get. Of course you still have to hit with every shot or speed doesn't matter. My family shoots pheasants, quail, ducks, geese, foxes and coyotes. In the wild most of these are first seen at maximum shotgun range and they are moving fast to get out of range before you shoulder your shotgun. It is also common to have multiple birds/animals appear at once. If you hope to get multiple, you can't dally. Three of my brothers are among the fastest shooters I've seen in the field (usually five good shots in 1.2 seconds except for waterfowl). When one brother has his 10 shot mag extension in for Spring snowgoose season, it looks like it is raining geese for two seconds. I've never shot as many quail or pheasants as they have in one jump (my max is four roosters jumping at 30 yards) and we've heard our whole lives from visiting hunters that they never knew a shotgun could shoot that fast.

          You may also need it to recover from misses or malfunctions. I had 5 rounds in my 25-06 when I got buzzed by a herd of antelope. I missed the first shot (lead too far) and then had four failed primer strikes and two failures to engage the sear. My nephew said he swore he saw three full cartridges ejected into the air at the same time. The last round finally went off on the third try and I got my antelope. I'll note that he wasn't posing for any of them and had I not worked the bolt fast, I would probably have eaten my tag.

          I love hunting with slow shooters.
          Last edited by DakotaMan; 07-09-2020, 10:11 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by PigHunter View Post

            Hey now, black rifles are legitimate hunting arms. So far I've killed 4 deer with mine.

            OHH, as you know, I'm not much of a wing shot with a shotgun. However, I use long arms when hunting by slipping through the Southern woods or when sitting in a blind, waiting on deer or pigs. Typically, I fire within two to three seconds once I identify it's a shootable animal.

            In thick undergrowth, often you will only get about 7 seconds to make the shot. So you better not waste time. I've got a Chemical Engineer buddy who can't do it because he takes too long to make decisions. He's better off sitting on a food plot and shooting at feeding game.

            EDIT: I once did some fast shooting at pigs with my old Remington 788 bolt action in .308 Win. Dropped the running sow first and then two of her offspring, getting off shots as fast as I could work the bolt.
            There is a good YouTube of a European shooting a sounder of running pigs with a bolt action rifle and extended magazine.

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            • #7
              A guy I worked with used to tell about quail hunting with his dad and uncle.
              He was just a kid and the older guys were popping birds on the covey rise quickly.
              Fussing at his uncle that they weren't giving him a chance to shoot, his uncle told him, "Ok Bubba. I'll let you have the next bird."
              When the next bird got up, all he saw was a puff of feathers at the top of the weeds.
              He turned and looked at his uncle in exasperation when his uncle said, "I'm sorry Bubba, but I waited and I waited.....!"

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              • #8
                Originally posted by DakotaMan View Post
                If you are hunting, the faster you shoot, the more you get. Of course you still have to hit with every shot or speed doesn't matter. My family shoots pheasants, quail, ducks, geese, foxes and coyotes. In the wild most of these are first seen at maximum shotgun range and they are moving fast to get out of range before you shoulder your shotgun. It is also common to have multiple birds/animals appear at once. If you hope to get multiple, you can't dally. Three of my brothers are among the fastest shooter I've seen in the field (usually five good shots in 1.2 seconds except for waterfowl). When one brother has his 10 shot mag extension in for Spring snowgoose season, it looks like it is raining geese for two seconds. I've never shot as many quail or pheasants as they have in one jump (my max is four roosters jumping at 30 yards) and we've heard our whole lives from visiting hunters that they never knew a shotgun could shoot that fast.

                You may also need it to recover from misses or malfunctions. I had 5 rounds in my 25-06 when I got buzzed by a herd of antelope. I missed the first shot (lead too far) and then had four failed primer strikes and two failures to engage the sear. My nephew said he swore he saw three full cartridges ejected into the air at the same time. The last round finally went off on the third try and I got my antelope. I'll note that he wasn't posing for any of them and had I not worked the bolt fast, I would probably have eaten my tag.

                I love hunting with slow shooters.
                I never got to see him do it, but I had a couple of other old quail hunters tell me they saw my grampa kill 7 birds on the covey rise more than once! He was shooting a "Mod" choked Win M12. Six in the mag and one up the spout.
                He was absolute "sudden death" with a shotgun!

                He hunted quite often with a bunch of WWI and WWII vets. Those old timers had survived, not only the Great Depression, but wars too and KNEW how to shoot!
                Last edited by FirstBubba; 07-08-2020, 05:18 PM.

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                • #9
                  I'm not sure if fast shooting and reaction shooting are necessarily the same thing, or at least they can be similar but with some differences. A covey rise and a flock of waterfowl dropping into dekes can both involve multiple fast shots but the situations aren't really the same. I've never hunted waterfowl but the one chukkar trip I did gave me fits. Having a bunch of birds launch out of knee high scrub with miles of visibility was unnerving for a guy who can sometimes manage connecting on grouse and woodcock in thick tangles. For ducks and geese I'd like to think that seeing the targets approach would give you a little advantage. Regardless, practice will help but good reflexes, hand-eye coordination and mental focus are a serious advantage starting out.

                  Last fall was only the second time I've ever shot at a running deer and the first time connecting. Years ago when I was in my twenties I took a pop at a buck chasing a doe through the woods, a shot I had no business taking. Young and foolish hail mary. An hour or two later another guy shot the same buck still with the doe. The one last season was also running a doe but quite a bit behind her. I was in a ladder stand at the time and both came from behind on my right quartering past to my left. Even though I was on the edge of a field my scope was turned down to 4x, instinctively I brought the gun up not really expecting to shoot. Somehow the crosshair found the buck's shoulder and just stayed with it. Without really leading and having the proper sight picture something in my brain locked on and I somehow knew to fire. The shot hit just behind the left shoulder and exited in front of the right, deer was about 75 yards out. From recognizing the buck to shooting was just a few seconds but it almost felt like slow motion. It's not something I plan on repeating but if the opportunity comes up and conditions feel right I probably would take the shot again.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by fitch270 View Post
                    I'm not sure if fast shooting and reaction shooting are necessarily the same thing, or at least they can be similar but with some differences. A covey rise and a flock of waterfowl dropping into dekes can both involve multiple fast shots but the situations aren't really the same. I've never hunted waterfowl but the one chukkar trip I did gave me fits. Having a bunch of birds launch out of knee high scrub with miles of visibility was unnerving for a guy who can sometimes manage connecting on grouse and woodcock in thick tangles. For ducks and geese I'd like to think that seeing the targets approach would give you a little advantage. Regardless, practice will help but good reflexes, hand-eye coordination and mental focus are a serious advantage starting out.

                    Last fall was only the second time I've ever shot at a running deer and the first time connecting. Years ago when I was in my twenties I took a pop at a buck chasing a doe through the woods, a shot I had no business taking. Young and foolish hail mary. An hour or two later another guy shot the same buck still with the doe. The one last season was also running a doe but quite a bit behind her. I was in a ladder stand at the time and both came from behind on my right quartering past to my left. Even though I was on the edge of a field my scope was turned down to 4x, instinctively I brought the gun up not really expecting to shoot. Somehow the crosshair found the buck's shoulder and just stayed with it. Without really leading and having the proper sight picture something in my brain locked on and I somehow knew to fire. The shot hit just behind the left shoulder and exited in front of the right, deer was about 75 yards out. From recognizing the buck to shooting was just a few seconds but it almost felt like slow motion. It's not something I plan on repeating but if the opportunity comes up and conditions feel right I probably would take the shot again.
                    That's what I would call an "instinct" shot.
                    It's one of those instances where your brain just sorta takes over and tells your body what to do without you consciously thinking about the actions.
                    I did that recently with an armadillo.
                    I was trying to get a clear shot when it went under a stock trailer.
                    I swung the rifle to the other side of the trailer expecting him to come out on that side.
                    I caught movement and realized it had doubled back and was hurrying away.
                    Not thinking, I just swung back, put it in the scope and pulled the trigger.
                    Didn't think about it. Just did it!
                    Nailed that hole digging, garden destroying, disease carrying bugger!

                    BTW! Buckshott00! 55gr .223 SP ammo works great on 'dillers! LOL!

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                    • #11
                      My first deer was running when I shot it, November 12, 1994. It was before sunrise, opening day in Pembroke KY, and I was sitting cross-legged on a tarp overlooking a field.. it had been recently turned and planted with wheat and the ground was soft. At first light I saw two deer several hundred yards away. I waited for them to get closer and something at the end of the field spooked them, probably another hunter on the adjacent farm. One buck headed my way and was going to run in a tangent with a closest approach of about 100 yards. That's where I planned to take him.

                      I raised the Remington 788 in .308 Win to my shoulder with my elbows propped on my knees. Looking through that 4x fixed Bushnell, I swung the barrel along with the buck, trying to decide how far to lead the shot. I aimed in front of the deer's nose and the first shot missed - too much lead! I quickly racked the bolt, got back on target, aiming about even with the nose and pulled the trigger a second time. The bullet connected with the neck and the 6-point's head dropped with the antlers embedding into that soft earth and his rear legs somersaulted over the body with the deer stopping movement facing the way he'd come. I counted 120 paces to the body and put one more shot into his chest just for insurance. It was about 6:15 am and the buck weighed about 160 lbs. Excellent! I didn't let my host or the hired hand know it was my first.
                      Trump 2020 - Keep America Great!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PigHunter View Post
                        My first deer was running when I shot it, November 12, 1994. It was before sunrise, opening day in Pembroke KY, and I was sitting cross-legged on a tarp overlooking a field.. it had been recently turned and planted with wheat and the ground was soft. At first light I saw two deer several hundred yards away. I waited for them to get closer and something at the end of the field spooked them, probably another hunter on the adjacent farm. One buck headed my way and was going to run in a tangent with a closest approach of about 100 yards. That's where I planned to take him.

                        I raised the Remington 788 in .308 Win to my shoulder with my elbows propped on my knees. Looking through that 4x fixed Bushnell, I swung the barrel along with the buck, trying to decide how far to lead the shot. I aimed in front of the deer's nose and the first shot missed - too much lead! I quickly racked the bolt, got back on target, aiming about even with the nose and pulled the trigger a second time. The bullet connected with the neck and the 6-point's head dropped with the antlers embedding into that soft earth and his rear legs somersaulted over the body with the deer stopping movement facing the way he'd come. I counted 120 paces to the body and put one more shot into his chest just for insurance. It was about 6:15 am and the buck weighed about 160 lbs. Excellent! I didn't let my host or the hired hand know it was my first.
                        In the neck just behind the head or down more towards the chest? I'm thinking higher up if you didn't lead much on the first shot and still missed in front. Besides, vertically you'd been aiming higher as well. So you didn't tell the other guys knowing it was better lucky than good?😎


                        I'm sure bird hunting helped in my case a little, but the fact the deer was quartering meant he was going away as much as side to side and from my right to left which is better for a right handed shooter.
                        Last edited by fitch270; 07-08-2020, 08:08 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by fitch270 View Post

                          In the neck just behind the head or down more towards the chest? I'm thinking higher up if you didn't lead much on the first shot and still missed in front. Besides, vertically you'd been aiming higher as well. So you didn't tell the other guys knowing it was better lucky than good?😎
                          You've got it! Lucky. The bullet hit about dead center of the neck. To this day, I suspect the deer broke his spine with that acrobatic move.

                          EDIT: I'd forgotten that on the following day, my second deer was also taken on the run. No deer showed that early Sunday morning and I was back at the farmhouse before 9:00. The farm's hired hand said he often saw deer bedding in the undergrowth around another adjacent field and suggested we take a walk about to see. Well, why not? I had a doe tag to fill so I grabbed the M1 Garand and off we went... We just finished walking around some small barns when suddenly, an antlerless deer got up and started running. I brought the rifle to my shoulder, found the deer in the peep sights, and fired, dropping the doe on the spot at 40 yards. My records show I was using Hornady 150 gr handloads in once-fired military brass. I believe I still have a few rounds from that lot... 26 years later, LOL!
                          Last edited by PigHunter; 07-09-2020, 10:54 AM.
                          Trump 2020 - Keep America Great!

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                          • #14
                            Fast shots. Made several bird hunting pheasants growing up I found if I just shot and let it happen I was a much better shot. But my most memorable was the first nice buck I got after I moved to Arkansas. It was a warm day I was sitting on a bucket in camo net blind cheap skate!! Anyways I was smoking a cigarette rifle leaning on a sapling next to me. Heard a twig snap the buck had just caught my smoke he turned about 90 degrees and picked up speed. I have to grab my rifle get a knee and get a sight picture got a clear look at the vitals the instant before he went behind a huge oak tree. Sent a round down range it hit it’s mark. It entered behind the should actually hit the heart and stopped just under the skin on the outside of the other shoulder. Hornady sst awesome bullets. Anyways he crashed about 50 yards. Heavy dark horns 15” wide 11 point. The prettiest deer I’ve ever shot.

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                            • #15
                              milldawg, I have no doubt that lots of bird hunting prepares you well for shooting running game, at least at close range. You get accustomed to getting your gun up and getting sight picture quickly, following or leading and shooting as a reflex. When I was a kid, we practiced for a decade or more dragging a fox target a couple hundred feet behind the truck to sharpen our lead and hit at a distance. That really helped too when it came to hitting things at range. After more than 50 years of hunting, I'd still say that the majority of my shots at larger game have come on running game. Ironically, the biggest miss I can remember came on a posing 40 yard antelope when my newly replaced left knee collapsed as I raised to a crouch to shoot. I got that one with the next shot on the dead run. The nice doe that was accompanying that antelope came on the next shot at 500 yards even when she stopped and turned to look back. I leaned against a hay stack for a rest and within 3 seconds, ranged the standing doe, dropped to my 500 yard dot and shot her in the heart. I haven't shot may antelope standing still but I've found they rarely stand still for long when humans are in sight after the first week of the season.

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