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Jack O’Connor’s Formula For Shooting Game At Long Range - Outdoor Life

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  • #16
    I followed The MPBR method religiously for nearly 40 years . I sighted my 270 win 31/2 inches high at 100 41/2 at peak and on at 300 yards only 10 inches low at 400 .It worked like a charm everywhere I took that rifle . If your reading this and think that that’s extreme , join the crowd . I’ve been ripped for more years than I can remember. If you sight in differently I will not rip you for it, we all hunt and site in accordingly . Eastern shore corn and soybean fields , North central PA potato fields lend to long shots . In Wyoming MPBR was a must , open sage brush made ranging difficult. Before affordable rangefinders and reliable reticles MPBR was the way to go for a hunter out to 400 yards . The past several years I’m moving towards dials and long range reticles but not totally !

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    • #17
      Yup. For my midwest shooting MPBR isnt needed. Out west Id sure do it.

      Took my .35 rem deer rifle out today. Wet windy and cold. Changed rings so wanted to see how off it was. Maybe .75" left at 25 yds. Weather gets better Ill set it dead on at 75 yds.

      My other rifles are .243 and .30-06. both are set 1.5" high at 100.

      Yotes and deer.....here.......but for a bit longer ( secondary hunting spots )

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      • #18
        All depends on how you want to hunt. There is more than one way to skin the cat when it comes to hunting at distance. Find what works for your gun and skill-set.
        I don't use MBPR.

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        • #19
          I have never been a fan of long range shooting. Shot my kudu last year at 350 yards and that is and forever will be my longest shot at game. And it was with a strange gun that I knew from a previous miss at 220 meters was shooting way low. I still managed to make it work but had the PH given me the range I would never have pulled the trigger. And that's why he didn't give me the range. "I knew you can shoot." Guess there's a lesson in there about confidence vs skill. Fortunately the kudu fell dead on the spot. It certainly could have ended otherwise.

          The way I typically hunt, 100 yards is a long shot. I'm a stalker. It is much more rewarding to get up close and personal rather than relying on some expensive technocrap to drop a bomb on an elk 400 yards away. Get close enough to see their eyes sparkle. That's an achievement that is never forgotten. Several times I have probably been close enough for powder burns but never the right sex to shoot. Shot one bull moose almost that close and he never knew I was there. Otherwise he would have got up out of his bed.

          Real hunting was never intended to be about the grade of equipment but rather the skill of the hunter finding and pursuing game. There is a difference between hunting animals ... and just shooting them.

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          • #20
            "Real Hunting was never intended..." I don't believe that for a minute!
            "Real Hunting was never intended... to be about grade of equipment." Oh my....

            That is fine if it is your definition, but don't make your truth an eternal truth that everyone else must follow.
            Every since hunting has been around, people have been desiring to kill from a further distance than previous...Just consider the evolution of archery equipment, Black powder, rifles, and handguns.
            Hunt the way you want-No problem with me.
            I have taken a number of big game under 100 yards but that is with usually with a revolvers and or a bow. I can do the sneaky sneak, and I can shoot far. All depends on my mood and what I want to do.
            Also depends on the amount of practice with said gun.

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            • #21
              Honk , I guess that was intended for me so let me retort ! You mention a lesson of confidence vs skill , you may want to try to listen to your own advice. How do you rip
              guys for 400 yard shots but you shoot 350 yards , not know the range and use a strange rifle. I can tell you I would never do that kind of thing.
              I’m nothing to real Long range hunters, it is not even considered LR until past 5 ,600 yards most over 800 . True LRH work hard to be effective out at distance. O’Connor’s MPBR is not a long range formula it’s a system to give the rifleman the best use of the rifle he carries .Its a basic idea based on shooting past a couple hundred yards . Pretty much mid range. Like Ernie says he doesn’t use it, he shoots longer ranges where MPBR does not serve his needs. Dakota Man as well. This system was developed 50 years ago before range finders and top quality rifle scope reticles .
              This is a real hunting style, no less than any other. Not everyone cup of tea but not everyone has the skill to do it either. I know I don’t . I will continue to work on my shooting , we as Americans have been doing this for hundreds of years . The Pennsylvania and Kentucky longrifles , the Hawken and the Sharps rifles rifle , Smokeless powder aperture sights scopes , all of it designed to gain range and accuracy !

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              • #22
                Honker: "Real hunting was never intended to be about the grade of equipment but rather the skill of the hunter".

                We each have our own personal ethics. Some of us hunt for meat, some of us hunt for the challenge, some of us hunt for trophies and some of us hunt for the camaraderie with others. I respect your opinion and admire your hunting skills but don't consider your opinion to be the only truth.

                I can guarantee you though that if most humans didn't desire better equipment over the last couple thousand years, we'd still be hunting with spears. I personally like to continuously expand my hunting capabilities. Therefore, I've enjoyed the challenge of hunting effectively with all kinds of equipment and at continuously increasing and decreasing range (yes, I've worked at and been successful getting deer and antelope to put their nose on my shirt). I don't impose my values on others and am actually appreciative that in America we respect widely varying values as long as they don't hurt our fellow Americans and they show complete respect for our quarry.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Pmacc60 View Post
                  Honk , I guess that was intended for me so let me retort ! You mention a lesson of confidence vs skill , you may want to try to listen to your own advice. How do you rip
                  guys for 400 yard shots but you shoot 350 yards , not know the range and use a strange rifle. I can tell you I would never do that kind of thing.
                  I’m nothing to real Long range hunters, it is not even considered LR until past 5 ,600 yards most over 800 . True LRH work hard to be effective out at distance. O’Connor’s MPBR is not a long range formula it’s a system to give the rifleman the best use of the rifle he carries .Its a basic idea based on shooting past a couple hundred yards . Pretty much mid range. Like Ernie says he doesn’t use it, he shoots longer ranges where MPBR does not serve his needs. Dakota Man as well. This system was developed 50 years ago before range finders and top quality rifle scope reticles .
                  This is a real hunting style, no less than any other. Not everyone cup of tea but not everyone has the skill to do it either. I know I don’t . I will continue to work on my shooting , we as Americans have been doing this for hundreds of years . The Pennsylvania and Kentucky longrifles , the Hawken and the Sharps rifles rifle , Smokeless powder aperture sights scopes , all of it designed to gain range and accuracy !
                  Intended for you? Guess you have a guilty conscience?

                  In Africa the hunter generally shoots what his PH tells him to shoot. Keep in mind that until last fall I had only hunted with a fixed 3X Weaver for the last fifty years. I was on that kudu with 9X. It didn't appear to me to be 350 yards away. Also, this was literally the eleventh hour of the last day of hunting. It would be the last chance to shoot the animal I wanted most. Still, had I known it was that far I would not have attempted the shot. Which is why the PHs (two of them) didn't give me the range. They had more confidence in my abilities than I did. Anyway, the way the kudu was positioned I was fairly certain the bullet would have to hit something vital. He was standing facing downhill looking at us. I was told to aim high on his back. So I put the crosshairs about a foot above his forehead. Then I remembered from the previous missed shot this rental rifle shot a foot and a half low at 220 meters. So I pulled up way high between his horns, fired, and broke his neck just behind the left ear. Fortunately he turned his head just as I shot or the bullet would have hit him in the face. The way he was standing I knew the bullet would either hit him in the back, the neck, the head, or the chest. Any of those would put him down. The gun was anchored on two tripods front and back and the kudu was not moving. I only had to adjust for the drop. I'm glad the gun was shooting low. That made me hold higher than I might have normally. I'm also glad the kudu was standing in that position. Otherwise I probably wouldn't have taken the shot.

                  I got it done. But how much did I get out of it? A decent set of horns. Not much beyond that. And there is a lot more "beyond" that's desirable. As I write this I'm looking at a couple of elk racks on the wall that involved tracking, patience, stamina, and stealth. Get the drop on one of those in the mountains at forty yards and it will make you soil yourself. Holding your water and making the shot in those circumstances requires something special. Arriving at those circumstances requires something even more special. How much excitement is involved in shooting something at long range? Relatively speaking, there is no comparison. Ninety percent of the "skill" involved is in the choice of equipment. The skill involved in stalking an animal close enough to see eyelashes belongs to the hunter and to him alone. Equipment - something designed and built by someone else - plays little or no roll in the achievement.

                  Perhaps this helps you understand what I meant by"real hunting."

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Ontario Honker Hunter View Post

                    Intended for you? Guess you have a guilty conscience?

                    In Africa the hunter generally shoots what his PH tells him to shoot. Keep in mind that until last fall I had only hunted with a fixed 3X Weaver for the last fifty years. I was on that kudu with 9X. It didn't appear to me to be 350 yards away. Also, this was literally the eleventh hour of the last day of hunting. It would be the last chance to shoot the animal I wanted most. Still, had I known it was that far I would not have attempted the shot. Which is why the PHs (two of them) didn't give me the range. They had more confidence in my abilities than I did. Anyway, the way the kudu was positioned I was fairly certain the bullet would have to hit something vital. He was standing facing downhill looking at us. I was told to aim high on his back. So I put the crosshairs about a foot above his forehead. Then I remembered from the previous missed shot this rental rifle shot a foot and a half low at 220 meters. So I pulled up way high between his horns, fired, and broke his neck just behind the left ear. Fortunately he turned his head just as I shot or the bullet would have hit him in the face. The way he was standing I knew the bullet would either hit him in the back, the neck, the head, or the chest. Any of those would put him down. The gun was anchored on two tripods front and back and the kudu was not moving. I only had to adjust for the drop. I'm glad the gun was shooting low. That made me hold higher than I might have normally. I'm also glad the kudu was standing in that position. Otherwise I probably wouldn't have taken the shot.

                    I got it done. But how much did I get out of it? A decent set of horns. Not much beyond that. And there is a lot more "beyond" that's desirable. As I write this I'm looking at a couple of elk racks on the wall that involved tracking, patience, stamina, and stealth. Get the drop on one of those in the mountains at forty yards and it will make you soil yourself. Holding your water and making the shot in those circumstances requires something special. Arriving at those circumstances requires something even more special. How much excitement is involved in shooting something at long range? Relatively speaking, there is no comparison. Ninety percent of the "skill" involved is in the choice of equipment. The skill involved in stalking an animal close enough to see eyelashes belongs to the hunter and to him alone. Equipment - something designed and built by someone else - plays little or no roll in the achievement.

                    Perhaps this helps you understand what I meant by"real hunting."
                    I understood you the first time, here is the problem in what your saying. Your not a real hunter either ! According to what you are saying or doing your not a real hunter like Matt37 , he hunts with a open sighted shotgun and gets his deer in that fashion . BHR is the best of all the F&S hunters killing Elk with traditional archery unless Pig Hunter gets that spear working.
                    No my conscience is clear, if I don’t do something that bothers It I don’t lose any sleep! Sleeping fine these days !😏

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Pmacc60 View Post
                      I understood you the first time, here is the problem in what your saying. Your not a real hunter either ! According to what you are saying or doing your not a real hunter like Matt37 , he hunts with a open sighted shotgun and gets his deer in that fashion . BHR is the best of all the F&S hunters killing Elk with traditional archery unless Pig Hunter gets that spear working.
                      No my conscience is clear, if I don’t do something that bothers It I don’t lose any sleep! Sleeping fine these days !😏
                      You are kinda stretching the context of what I'm saying to make things antagonistic. We base our concept of hunting ethics on "fair chase" but it seems like the chase has been replaced by technology. Perhaps it should be "fair shooting?" Richard and Matt an Pighunter understand the difference. They are no more "real hunters" than me. But they also value the rewards of taking animals close and personally.

                      I have taken animals at very close range and also a few that were out there a ways too. There is some satisfaction connecting with an elk in the next zip code (significantly dampened after spending the rest of the day chasing it down and the rest of the next two days in the rain packing it out of a canyon with horses). There is satisfaction PLUS excitement tracking one to its bed for a point blank shot. The excitement factor is relatively insignificant for artillery range shooting. I shot eight plains game in Africa last year. Only one, the gemsbuck, really got my heart pumping because it was in the process of running me over when I shot it in the heart. When I flattened my wildebeest the day before with only one shot, the PH was very impressed. I couldn't understand why. "Gees, Glen, I've had the crosshairs on him standing still as a statue at 100 metres and the gun is sitting on four-point shooting sticks. I'd have to be retarded to screw that up." The stalk was interesting with a giraffe and fine bull eland getting in the way but the end game really wasn't that exciting. Might have been if I'd had to take a quick offhand shot. But we had to wait several minutes for the bull to turn our way to tell if he was a shooter (he was fixated on the eland standing in front of him to our right which was fixated on us). Two days later finding ourselves suddenly in the middle of a herd of cape buffalo on their evening walkabout in thick cover was plenty exciting. Shooting mine in the open a half hour later standing at 110 meters was not nearly as thrilling. Not until the herd bull spiced things up with a couple of charges.

                      Perhaps the glamour of just shooting things has dimmed some over the years. I find I need to keep it exciting or hunting becomes mundane. Yes, I spend the first month of hunting season calling geese to my decoys and that can be relatively mundane. But it helps get me in shape and the dogs back in the groove. Then I'm in Montana chasing uplands with the dogs. Even though I've shot hundreds of roosters in my lifetime, the excitement of pushing one up ten yards away never dims. The last one was just as unnerving as the first one more than a half century ago. Every fall when I'm in Montana I see hundreds of deer, most at long range. Nothing really exciting. But once the chase is on for a nice buck, then the blood pressure comes up. And when he pops up out of the draw right in front of me ... that's why I still hunt deer.

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                      • #26
                        Zero for a hundred out to 300 hold just a little high farthest shot I’ve ever made was 350 while hunting and I held just below the top of the back.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Milldawg View Post
                          Zero for a hundred out to 300 hold just a little high farthest shot I’ve ever made was 350 while hunting and I held just below the top of the back.
                          Look what the cat drug in!

                          We were just talking about you 'dawg, great to hear from you.

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                          • #28
                            Good to hear from you dawg! We were fearing the Covid go you.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I would agree with Honker that the most exciting hunt to me is one where I see the game for several minutes before I shoot and get close enough to worry about them hearing me breath. I think "anticipation" is what does it for me. After crawling for hours to get into the middle of a herd of sleeping antelope with a bow, your heart starts to really thump as you begin to pass does on the stalk for the buck.

                              That being said, I'd also have to say that I find a long range shot to provide a feeling of immense satisfaction too. I have similar anticipation because it still usually involve sneaking and positioning or waiting. I have the same sense of achieving predictability in my shot. But after a perfect hit, I have the feeling that a lifetime of effort and thousands of rounds of practice has paid off in making that shot so predictable that I was able to accomplish another merciful kill shot. I've never worked so hard preparing for the hunt with any other technique as I do with long range hunting.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                DM,
                                Both are rewarding. Both are different. Both are fun! Hunt the way you want! Don't worry about what others think. Obey the game laws, be safe, enjoy yourself, and hunt the way you want...Can you attach an aimpoint to a spear without changing POI???

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