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Small Calibers for Big Game. This is Not a New Thing by Tyler Freel

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  • #31
    Guys, I hesitated writing a few of my experiences because I know they are dangerous in most conditions. I grew up on the prairie where I could see as far as 11 miles and was always very conscious of what was behind my shot. I trapped and shot fur bearers aggressively for a few years. I would get $200 worth of muskrats in an evening by shooting from a knoll overlooking a lake. From my overlook, I could see dozens of muskrats swimming within a couple hundred yards. I used my trusty 25-06 Imp and a 75g hollow point moving at 3950 to hit right in front of their nose. Most bullets would disintegrate on contact with the water but I'd occasionally hear the bullets whizzing off into the distance and see them hit again way out there. About half the hits would launch the muskrat three feet in the air where they were dead instantly.

    When the Ice was about 2 1/2" thick, I'd walk the lake harvesting muskrats by the dozens. I'd hit a muskrat mound with my tile spade (that I used to chisel ice holes that weren't quite large enough). Immediately I'd hear several of them hit the water and could easily see them swimming under the ice as they headed for distant breathers. I'd quickly shoot just ahead the muskrats as they swam with their backs just under the ice. I used 100g Interlocks at about 3600 fps and it blew a hole just big enough to fish the muskrat out easily. Half of them were blown out of the water so all I had to do was pick them up off the ice and throw them in my gunny sack. Ricochets weren't an issue there either but I was normally shooting so close to my feet that the bullets penetrated under the ice and stayed in the water. I could often get three or four from the same mound. The lake I hunted had hundreds of mounds and it didn't take long to get all the muskrats I could carry. I sold about 1000 muskrats a week for $4.00 each.

    My family ate a lot of doves and I hunted over a nice bunch of crab apple trees spread across a few acres with absolutely nothing behind them. I'd sit and pick doves off as they returned to the trees during the day or in the evening. I picked many off with a .22 but when nothing was close, I used my 25-06 and was able to pick them off a couple hundred yards away. Of course they are very small so I preferred to get at least two birds with each shot. They often perched close to each other so I could easily shoot between their heads most of the time. I normally shot to the side of their heads so I was always challenged to look beyond the doves to observe where my bullets hit way out there. I found that the little 75g bullets would drop pretty fast so they seldom hit over 1000 yards away.

    A couple of days a year, when the weather was right, I'd float down the Missouri for many miles picking beavers off the bank as I floated by. They sink like a rock so I had to spot them on land or at least on top of their lodges. I'd shoot their front foot with the 75g bullets and they'd die instantly with no damage to the hide.

    I know these adventures would never make the American Sportsman but out in the boonies where I grew up depending on hunting, fishing and trapping, I pretty much got food and furs any legal way I could. I must also mention that I heard a lot of questions from fur buyers at the trading posts where I sold furs. They always wanted to know where I got 1000 muskrats with no marks whatsoever on any of the hides.

    You bring up a great concern with ricochets. I am amazed at the number of people who shoot centerfire rifles with no concern for what is behind their target. I am especially concerned having grown up on the open plains where some bullets can travel several miles.
    Last edited by DakotaMan; 09-10-2019, 10:18 PM.

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    • #32
      Check out 'Points North' for many of Tylers vidio's.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by DakotaMan View Post
        Guys, I hesitated writing a few of my experiences because I know they are dangerous in most conditions...
        DakotaMan, thanks for posting the details. I find it very fascinating. My hunting conditions are of course different. The closest I could come to those velocities with what I have would be with the 5.56 in an AR and the .243 in a single shot Handi-Rifle. Any advice on pushing the velocity limits with either of those? I've considered fitting the 5.56 with a longer heavy barrel.

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        • #34
          Dakota, as a prime BS'r myself, I have to ask: Are you trying to see what you can us to believe, one-upping yourself periodically with obviously impossible claims, or are you really trying to pass these off as true?

          In my opinion, you were doing OK until the .375 penetrating 1/4 mile of forest (not to mention tracking the bullet..chapeau) but you failed pretty miserably with the dove and muskrat thing.

          A good internet troll needs to remember the plausibility caveat. You have the talent, man, you've just stopped trying.

          For penance, I want you to post 100 times that your rifles are all 0.0 to 0.1 MOA accurate. Put your heart into it, and BELIEVE.

          PS: I was thinking that you could post something about high-velocity bullets stripping protons from the animal's carbon atoms, making them non-game animals once the atomic structure changes were taken into consideration. Do you thing that's too much? (Feel free to use that if you like it)

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          • #35
            [QUOTE=Amflyer;n714203]Dakota, as a prime BS'r myself, I have to ask: Are you trying to see what you can us to believe, one-upping yourself periodically with obviously impossible claims, or are you really trying to pass these off as true?

            In my opinion, you were doing OK until the .375 penetrating 1/4 mile of forest (not to mention tracking the bullet..chapeau) but you failed pretty miserably with the dove and muskrat thing.

            Ditto that.

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            • #36
              Id like to shoot a couple deer w pipsqueak cartridges.....but shot selection would be picky and distance not far.

              256 win

              6mm TCU
              Last edited by CD2; 09-11-2019, 09:13 PM.

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              • #37
                Shooting by a critter or small size in water....dunno if bullet frag or shock from water displacement or whatever.....if of enough HP......does work

                Ice?

                Bullet frag, violent water diaplacement/shock....or ice frag?

                Dunno. Just thinking out loud



                ​​​​​​

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                • #38
                  Amflyer, I am of the same thinking and thus I stand by my post #21. I am rather surprised that others have not been saying similar words !

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                  • #39
                    I aint nothing special and have been repeatedly called a liar at gunshops....work.....and on the web.

                    Only when others who have been with me.....come to my defense.....do the critics shut up.

                    Even if I question something....ill leave it alone if I'm not sure. Unless a person is being an arse....i let a ton of stuff slide.

                    Not my job to educate, correct or monitor what other people do.
                    Got enough trolls in this world.

                    Things can differ quite a bit ......guy shoots 5 carp in the ditch behind his house aint gonna believe you shot 75 in less than 3 hrs in the same county.

                    I saw a flooded ag type basin that did have muskrat mounds everywhere. It was crazy. If somebody had sole rights to such an area......they could proly make it a full time job. Dunno how night vs day would be. Def need a boat.
                    Last edited by CD2; 09-12-2019, 08:12 AM.

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                    • #40
                      My father and I always took shotguns and heavy ammunition. I’m terribly afraid of big animals, but interesting, so killing with one cartridge at a distance is the best we could do. I am sure if a large beast near me, panic would begin.

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                      • #41
                        I almost didn’t comment on the BS posted. I’m surprised the tales didn’t begin with “this ain’t no schit....”

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                        • #42
                          My BS meter was pegged, but I was in the front room with the laptop and the ol lady had CNN on too.

                          Dakota post..........total BS or moderate to substantial embellishment?
                          I've never pushed 3K plus projectiles close to little noggins. Dunno what the effect would be. Was some vid about a 50 bmg deer miss that killed it due to eye/brain trauma. Skeptical. But then I am about most things.

                          BTW, farmer had aquatic rodent problem. Got DNR approval to remove nuisance critters.
                          Have seen miss kills w .300 magnum (muskrat). Beaver........some centerfires used, but I only witnessed direct hits w .22 lr. Head shots. No recovery..........til next day or so when they were balloons at the dam.

                          Bank collapse and tree damage (some nice big $$$ ones too).
                          Think the landowner has been in mild battle for the last 20 yrs. He's the only one working them over, other property owners don't...........so they have safe haven to repopulate close by.

                          Which reminds me........coworker has pretty big dam on his creek.
                          Can't trap it without a boat as bank is horrible.
                          Need to look for a cheap jon boat to drag out there for this winter.
                          And some 330s.

                          If local UAW goes on strike this weekend..........might find a deal.
                          Last edited by CD2; 09-12-2019, 01:37 PM.

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                          • #43
                            Pighunter, I use a 24" barrel and Benchmark or H335 for .223 using 40g and 50g bullets for varmints. These will shoot around 3350-3400 fps. CFE223, Varget or H4895 on 55g for deer/antelope. To get significantly more velocity I went to a .22-6mm in a bolt rifle. You could re-barrel to a .224 Valkerie or similar wild cat for about 150-200 fps increase with small bullets in the AR. If you want to go faster with a .243, you pretty much have to get another cartridge. Loading manuals are full of the best loads available for the .243. You can shoot faster with a size smaller Barnes bullet if you so desire. My recommendation for .243 shooters is to go to a 25-06 improved.

                            I know that people who have never shot a 25-06 Imp with a 12 twist barrel think my experiences are impossible. I've also seen that people who have never been in the wilderness really don't know what life is like in the wilderness. It's common for people who have never done something to view it as impossible (or at least very stupid). I don't blame them. I simply encourage them to try it. I'm always happy to share rifle specs and load speeds and feeds to let them duplicate my findings if they need proof.

                            The 25-06 Rem is not in the same cartridge... a fine cartridge but you won't see the shocking results you see in the Improved version with a slower twist or in the .257 Weatherby with a slow twist.

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                            • #44
                              Dakota, I think the farthest a 6' tall person can see on level ground is more like 3.5 to 4 miles. On the water we figured we were about 10' above the water and could see about 12 miles.

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                              • #45
                                Eskimos shoot caribou with a 22 pistol by floating up beside them in a boat and shooting them in the head. They divy up the work with a few guys working a boat or two, others pulling them from the water downstream, and most of the people butchering. I met a guy once who said in his younger poorer years they'd poach cow elk by shooting it in the side of the head slightly below the ear where there's a flat spot. 22lr.

                                It's fine for me to shoot 30 cal 180 grains but I can imagine for others it might be quite a bit of money. There's still people in this world that shoot pretty big animals with pea shooter small caliber smooth bore black powder firearms.

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