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  • crm3006
    replied
    Pmacc60- Exactly. My old faithful "ugly gun" shoots hot 165 gr. loads. It will put 180 gr. into a group at 200 yds, but that is about it. Not the reliable accuracy I want for deer country where they can hide in brush so deep that buzzards can hardly find them. You don't want a wounded deer to run out of sight in that country. Nor do I want an elk shot that doesn't go down immediately. I've seen how far they can travel, packing a lot of lead. So I go with the most accurate load.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pmacc60
    replied
    Originally posted by crm3006 View Post
    From PigHunter- "Hunters should amend the unwritten law they’ve obeyed for years and try 150-grain bullets in the .30-’06 for all big game. They’ll be glad they did when they see how effectively these bullets work on game from antelope to elk."

    I would agree that there is very little difference in the downrange impact of a 165 or 180 gr. bullet traveling somewhat slower, than there is in a faster 150 gr. projectile. However, one thing some gun writers fail to consider, is "What load shoots best?" A lot of gun writers seem to think that any given rifle, say, a .30-'06, will shoot any given load. It just ain't so. Different rifles have different barrel harmonics, and some just will not shoot well except with one particular load.
    Great and most important point made here CRM3006!. My rifle loved the 165 gr Nos partitions . It wouldn’t shoot 150’s at all so that’s what I use. One of the great misnomers of the 06 is that it’s versatility is in the fact you can shoot 55 gr sabots to 220 grain bullets in the same rifle and you can just not great accuracy through that whole spectrum .

    Leave a comment:


  • crm3006
    replied
    From PigHunter- "Hunters should amend the unwritten law they’ve obeyed for years and try 150-grain bullets in the .30-’06 for all big game. They’ll be glad they did when they see how effectively these bullets work on game from antelope to elk."

    I would agree that there is very little difference in the downrange impact of a 165 or 180 gr. bullet traveling somewhat slower, than there is in a faster 150 gr. projectile. However, one thing some gun writers fail to consider, is "What load shoots best?" A lot of gun writers seem to think that any given rifle, say, a .30-'06, will shoot any given load. It just ain't so. Different rifles have different barrel harmonics, and some just will not shoot well except with one particular load.

    Leave a comment:


  • PigHunter
    replied
    I think it's ridiculous to think there's any real difference in impact performance between 150g and 180g bullets from a .30-06, that's just old geezer talk. Bullet construction and shot placement remains paramount.

    Here's an interesting article from American Rifleman on the subject:

    A New Ruling for the .30-06 Sprg.
    https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...he-30-06-sprg/

    "Hunters should amend the unwritten law they’ve obeyed for years and try 150-grain bullets in the .30-’06 for all big game. They’ll be glad they did when they see how effectively these bullets work on game from antelope to elk."

    Leave a comment:


  • Ontario Honker Hunter
    replied
    Originally posted by Pmacc60 View Post
    Honk you realize the Nosler partition is not new technology , the Partition has been around since 1948 .
    Yes, but those old machined Partitions were terrible expensive. Not a working man's ammo.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pmacc60
    replied
    Originally posted by dewman View Post
    This post had me talking to my uncle in Michigan last night about the old days. Seems everyone shot 180's in their 30-06's & their 300 savages. 170gr only in 30-30's as well. The reason escapes him. He shoots 140 gr. Core-lokts in his 7-08(I converted him) but he won't shoot under 150 gr. in his 270. Hasn't used his 350 legend yet. Other uncle still using slugs.(lightfields) from a rifled barrel. Think he bought a 350 legend as well this year.
    Dewman, we are very close in age and trade Michigan for Pennsylvania and our uncles are on the same page . When I showed my Uncle my new 270 win he told me it was a nice groundhog gun unless I was shooting 150 grain bullets . He shot 180’s in his 06 and every one I knew shot 170’s in their 30-30’s. The truth is those old boys had to shoot a buck and may only have one chance to do so a season. They were not leaving it up to philosophy , they wanted their deer down and dead! When you use heavy bullets construction isn’t as big a deal !




    Leave a comment:


  • Pmacc60
    replied
    Originally posted by Ontario Honker Hunter View Post
    I think historically the biggest problem with lighter weight 30-06 bullets was keeping them on track after impact and, of course, excessive exit damage. Heavy 180 gr bullets hit hard and stayed true without making a mess. They carried well enough out to two hundred yards, and back in my day that was the maximum for ethical shooting. Back then getting a close shot was a more admirable accomplishment than taking something with a risky long bomb. Sadly, times have changed (mostly because marketing changed). Now it's all about bang-flop and/or 500 yard shooting. Messing up an animal is no longer a factor.

    How much has bullet technology advanced the hunting game? I saw a difference with 165 gr Partitions in Africa last year, most noticeably in the range factor. I made two very long shots that I normally wouldn't take and also one right at or just beyond my normal 180 gr limit. All three animals fell on the spot. It was not my preferred way of doing things but Africa is different. I trusted the PH and he trusted my ability (probably more than I did). It worked. Meat mangling is not a big thing over there. Literally thousands of pounds of meat can be harvested in a day and most is processed into biltong (jerky) or sausage for the market or donated to the local natives, so messing some of it up doesn't matter. Losing an animal is definitely more significant in Africa because the client pays for anything he draws blood from. When that animal is worth thousands (e.g. sable = $4500-$5000) bang-flop becomes an important consideration. In Africa it is a different game with different priorities.

    I will be hunting elk again this fall for the first time since 1985. Will I move up (or down?) to a modern high technology 165 gr or stick with the tried and true conventional 180+ gr? A good question. Apparently the conditions where my brother and his crew hunt are favourable for long shots. They all shoot magnums. But I think that's mostly due to the way they choose to hunt rather than what's required. And there are grizzlies in that country too. I really don't think 165 gr is enough for g-bear. 180 gr would not be my choice if I was hunting them but it stands a better chance of stopping one in its tracks if the need arises. So, for various reasons, I think I'll be packing both the 165 gr Partitions and 190 gr Hornady I already have loaded. The latter don't group as well but that won't make a difference within 100 yards. In more open situations I'll be loaded up with the lighter bullet. Shot placement will be foremost in my mind. No need for poor probability desperation shots. I have shot plenty of elk in my life already and a big pile of meat will be more than an old bachelor can handle anyway. I'm primarily along for the hunt. Shooting something is definitely not that important (it never should be). However, doing it right is. I have yet to lose an animal (with one sort of exception) or shoot one in the ham. I'd like to go to my grave with that record intact. And I certainly don't want to screw it up in front of a bunch of other guys.
    Honk you realize the Nosler partition is not new technology , the Partition has been around since 1948 .

    Leave a comment:


  • Ontario Honker Hunter
    replied
    I think historically the biggest problem with lighter weight 30-06 bullets was keeping them on track after impact and, of course, excessive exit damage. Heavy 180 gr bullets hit hard and stayed true without making a mess. They carried well enough out to two hundred yards, and back in my day that was the maximum for ethical shooting. Back then getting a close shot was a more admirable accomplishment than taking something with a risky long bomb. Sadly, times have changed (mostly because marketing changed). Now it's all about bang-flop and/or 500 yard shooting. Messing up an animal is no longer a factor.

    How much has bullet technology advanced the hunting game? I saw a difference with 165 gr Partitions in Africa last year, most noticeably in the range factor. I made two very long shots that I normally wouldn't take and also one right at or just beyond my normal 180 gr limit. All three animals fell on the spot. It was not my preferred way of doing things but Africa is different. I trusted the PH and he trusted my ability (probably more than I did). It worked. Meat mangling is not a big thing over there. Literally thousands of pounds of meat can be harvested in a day and most is processed into biltong (jerky) or sausage for the market or donated to the local natives, so messing some of it up doesn't matter. Losing an animal is definitely more significant in Africa because the client pays for anything he draws blood from. When that animal is worth thousands (e.g. sable = $4500-$5000) bang-flop becomes an important consideration. In Africa it is a different game with different priorities.

    I will be hunting elk again this fall for the first time since 1985. Will I move up (or down?) to a modern high technology 165 gr or stick with the tried and true conventional 180+ gr? A good question. Apparently the conditions where my brother and his crew hunt are favourable for long shots. They all shoot magnums. But I think that's mostly due to the way they choose to hunt rather than what's required. And there are grizzlies in that country too. I really don't think 165 gr is enough for g-bear. 180 gr would not be my choice if I was hunting them but it stands a better chance of stopping one in its tracks if the need arises. So, for various reasons, I think I'll be packing both the 165 gr Partitions and 190 gr Hornady I already have loaded. The latter don't group as well but that won't make a difference within 100 yards. In more open situations I'll be loaded up with the lighter bullet. Shot placement will be foremost in my mind. No need for poor probability desperation shots. I have shot plenty of elk in my life already and a big pile of meat will be more than an old bachelor can handle anyway. I'm primarily along for the hunt. Shooting something is definitely not that important (it never should be). However, doing it right is. I have yet to lose an animal (with one sort of exception) or shoot one in the ham. I'd like to go to my grave with that record intact. And I certainly don't want to screw it up in front of a bunch of other guys.
    Last edited by Ontario Honker Hunter; 08-04-2020, 04:30 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • dewman
    replied
    This post had me talking to my uncle in Michigan last night about the old days. Seems everyone shot 180's in their 30-06's & their 300 savages. 170gr only in 30-30's as well. The reason escapes him. He shoots 140 gr. Core-lokts in his 7-08(I converted him) but he won't shoot under 150 gr. in his 270. Hasn't used his 350 legend yet. Other uncle still using slugs.(lightfields) from a rifled barrel. Think he bought a 350 legend as well this year.

    Leave a comment:


  • Buckshott00
    replied
    I just wish I could get a fusion 160-165gr .280rem load. I don't think it's a lot to ask and I have high hopes for the Norma Oryx rounds. Stuff like that makes me want to have it drilled out to .280AI but whatever, maybe one day. Since I have to check zero on that scope anyway... I'm thinking of putting that 5X prism on it...

    My 6.8 is about to try some 115gr federal fusions for the first time. I hope she likes it. Might unseat the 120gr hornady loads I've been hunting with.

    Me and basically everyone in my deer camp until the younger guys were able to afford to buy their own rifles used 180gr .30-06 to hunt northern whitetails. I can remember my dad actually being concerned about us using 150gr loads one year. I dropped a whitetail on the spot, but to each their own. Guys to this day tell me hunting whitetail with my .300wm is too much, but honestly it's never been an issue and the most meat I've ever lost is blowing out ribs or rarely part of a shoulder.

    Leave a comment:


  • FirstBubba
    replied
    "... Hunting loose hogs in greenbriars and blackjacks is a different story. Don't believe I will be out there with just a .22 LR with the pinyrooters and the Russians, and their crossbreeds. ..."

    No sir! This little fat black duck either!
    If I'm busting brush for pigs, I prefer at least a .30-30 class cartridge.
    My 6.8mm AR works perfectly....for me.

    I've been fortunate in that I've been able to retrieve or have at hand, a .22LR for those unfortunate events.
    I did walk up on a pig trap once with only my .22 Hornet at hand. Flipped the pig over backwards.

    Leave a comment:


  • jhjimbo
    replied
    Originally posted by PigHunter View Post

    Jim, I also load for my .308 and it doesn't do well with bullets over 150gr. So, I stick with that weight in .30-06 in order to have common components. I doubt very seriously that an examination of a dead deer will show much difference between the different bullet weights.

    The WW2 .30-06 load for the M1 Garand was designated 'Caliber 30, Ball M2' and it had a 150gr bullet.
    M-1 was 174gr. M-2 150gr came about due to practice ranges being too short for the 174gr round.

    Leave a comment:


  • crm3006
    replied
    From #1 Bubba- "I've cleaned out more than one hog trap with a Ruger "Single Six" using Rem "Golden" .22's. ...and I'm talking some 200 pounders.

    Yep. While I generally used a 62A Winchester and CCI MiniMags, a .22 LR is about all you need for trapped hogs, no matter what size. Right between the eye and ear will put their lights out quick. Sick, crippled or dying livestock, I generally used whatever I had, .30-30, .22 pump, .357 rifle or revolver.
    Hunting loose hogs in greenbriars and blackjacks is a different story. Don't believe I will be out there with just a .22 LR with the pinyrooters and the Russians, and their crossbreeds.

    Leave a comment:


  • PigHunter
    replied
    Originally posted by jhjimbo View Post
    A government standard load for the 30-06 is a 168gr. I feel this is the 'balanced' projectile for the 30-06 and although I have loaded some all the way down to 110gr, I think the 170 to 180 is the best projectile for the -06. I have hunted in the Middle East, West and Northeast and always went for the 180gr in the -06.
    Jim, I also load for my .308 and it doesn't do well with bullets over 150gr. So, I stick with that weight in .30-06 in order to have common components. I doubt very seriously that an examination of a dead deer will show much difference between the different bullet weights.

    The WW2 .30-06 load for the M1 Garand was designated 'Caliber 30, Ball M2' and it had a 150gr bullet.

    Leave a comment:


  • FirstBubba
    replied
    Originally posted by PigHunter View Post

    I've had dismal results trying to drop feral pigs with a .22LR. However, I've killed two with the .22WMR. One day I met another hunter who had just dropped a pig with the .17HMR - head shot.

    I've also killed two deer with subsonic .300BLK. Which is in the handgun range of power.

    Professional deer cullers often use the .223 for their work. There's no doubt in my mind that tiny but fast cartridge will work for deer anywhere in North America with the right bullets and shot placement. Heck, some have killed bears with it. Here's one old article I found where a polar bear was dropped by a hunter using an AR in .223

    https://www.ammoland.com/2018/03/ar-...#axzz6U3iU1lHM
    I've cleaned out more than one hog trap with a Ruger "Single Six" using Rem "Golden" .22's.
    ...and I'm talking some 200 pounders.
    I've put down my share of dying, sick and crippled livestock.
    Tool of choice?
    Ruger Single-Six or MK IV .22LR.
    Rabbits to horses.

    ...and "Yes!", properly applied, you can kill a grizzly with a tire iron. Not sure I want to attempt the feat! LOL!

    Leave a comment:

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