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  • #46
    This post had me talking to my uncle in Michigan last night about the old days. Seems everyone shot 180's in their 30-06's & their 300 savages. 170gr only in 30-30's as well. The reason escapes him. He shoots 140 gr. Core-lokts in his 7-08(I converted him) but he won't shoot under 150 gr. in his 270. Hasn't used his 350 legend yet. Other uncle still using slugs.(lightfields) from a rifled barrel. Think he bought a 350 legend as well this year.

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    • #47
      I think historically the biggest problem with lighter weight 30-06 bullets was keeping them on track after impact and, of course, excessive exit damage. Heavy 180 gr bullets hit hard and stayed true without making a mess. They carried well enough out to two hundred yards, and back in my day that was the maximum for ethical shooting. Back then getting a close shot was a more admirable accomplishment than taking something with a risky long bomb. Sadly, times have changed (mostly because marketing changed). Now it's all about bang-flop and/or 500 yard shooting. Messing up an animal is no longer a factor.

      How much has bullet technology advanced the hunting game? I saw a difference with 165 gr Partitions in Africa last year, most noticeably in the range factor. I made two very long shots that I normally wouldn't take and also one right at or just beyond my normal 180 gr limit. All three animals fell on the spot. It was not my preferred way of doing things but Africa is different. I trusted the PH and he trusted my ability (probably more than I did). It worked. Meat mangling is not a big thing over there. Literally thousands of pounds of meat can be harvested in a day and most is processed into biltong (jerky) or sausage for the market or donated to the local natives, so messing some of it up doesn't matter. Losing an animal is definitely more significant in Africa because the client pays for anything he draws blood from. When that animal is worth thousands (e.g. sable = $4500-$5000) bang-flop becomes an important consideration. In Africa it is a different game with different priorities.

      I will be hunting elk again this fall for the first time since 1985. Will I move up (or down?) to a modern high technology 165 gr or stick with the tried and true conventional 180+ gr? A good question. Apparently the conditions where my brother and his crew hunt are favourable for long shots. They all shoot magnums. But I think that's mostly due to the way they choose to hunt rather than what's required. And there are grizzlies in that country too. I really don't think 165 gr is enough for g-bear. 180 gr would not be my choice if I was hunting them but it stands a better chance of stopping one in its tracks if the need arises. So, for various reasons, I think I'll be packing both the 165 gr Partitions and 190 gr Hornady I already have loaded. The latter don't group as well but that won't make a difference within 100 yards. In more open situations I'll be loaded up with the lighter bullet. Shot placement will be foremost in my mind. No need for poor probability desperation shots. I have shot plenty of elk in my life already and a big pile of meat will be more than an old bachelor can handle anyway. I'm primarily along for the hunt. Shooting something is definitely not that important (it never should be). However, doing it right is. I have yet to lose an animal (with one sort of exception) or shoot one in the ham. I'd like to go to my grave with that record intact. And I certainly don't want to screw it up in front of a bunch of other guys.
      Last edited by Ontario Honker Hunter; 08-04-2020, 04:30 PM.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Ontario Honker Hunter View Post
        I think historically the biggest problem with lighter weight 30-06 bullets was keeping them on track after impact and, of course, excessive exit damage. Heavy 180 gr bullets hit hard and stayed true without making a mess. They carried well enough out to two hundred yards, and back in my day that was the maximum for ethical shooting. Back then getting a close shot was a more admirable accomplishment than taking something with a risky long bomb. Sadly, times have changed (mostly because marketing changed). Now it's all about bang-flop and/or 500 yard shooting. Messing up an animal is no longer a factor.

        How much has bullet technology advanced the hunting game? I saw a difference with 165 gr Partitions in Africa last year, most noticeably in the range factor. I made two very long shots that I normally wouldn't take and also one right at or just beyond my normal 180 gr limit. All three animals fell on the spot. It was not my preferred way of doing things but Africa is different. I trusted the PH and he trusted my ability (probably more than I did). It worked. Meat mangling is not a big thing over there. Literally thousands of pounds of meat can be harvested in a day and most is processed into biltong (jerky) or sausage for the market or donated to the local natives, so messing some of it up doesn't matter. Losing an animal is definitely more significant in Africa because the client pays for anything he draws blood from. When that animal is worth thousands (e.g. sable = $4500-$5000) bang-flop becomes an important consideration. In Africa it is a different game with different priorities.

        I will be hunting elk again this fall for the first time since 1985. Will I move up (or down?) to a modern high technology 165 gr or stick with the tried and true conventional 180+ gr? A good question. Apparently the conditions where my brother and his crew hunt are favourable for long shots. They all shoot magnums. But I think that's mostly due to the way they choose to hunt rather than what's required. And there are grizzlies in that country too. I really don't think 165 gr is enough for g-bear. 180 gr would not be my choice if I was hunting them but it stands a better chance of stopping one in its tracks if the need arises. So, for various reasons, I think I'll be packing both the 165 gr Partitions and 190 gr Hornady I already have loaded. The latter don't group as well but that won't make a difference within 100 yards. In more open situations I'll be loaded up with the lighter bullet. Shot placement will be foremost in my mind. No need for poor probability desperation shots. I have shot plenty of elk in my life already and a big pile of meat will be more than an old bachelor can handle anyway. I'm primarily along for the hunt. Shooting something is definitely not that important (it never should be). However, doing it right is. I have yet to lose an animal (with one sort of exception) or shoot one in the ham. I'd like to go to my grave with that record intact. And I certainly don't want to screw it up in front of a bunch of other guys.
        Honk you realize the Nosler partition is not new technology , the Partition has been around since 1948 .

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by dewman View Post
          This post had me talking to my uncle in Michigan last night about the old days. Seems everyone shot 180's in their 30-06's & their 300 savages. 170gr only in 30-30's as well. The reason escapes him. He shoots 140 gr. Core-lokts in his 7-08(I converted him) but he won't shoot under 150 gr. in his 270. Hasn't used his 350 legend yet. Other uncle still using slugs.(lightfields) from a rifled barrel. Think he bought a 350 legend as well this year.
          Dewman, we are very close in age and trade Michigan for Pennsylvania and our uncles are on the same page . When I showed my Uncle my new 270 win he told me it was a nice groundhog gun unless I was shooting 150 grain bullets . He shot 180’s in his 06 and every one I knew shot 170’s in their 30-30’s. The truth is those old boys had to shoot a buck and may only have one chance to do so a season. They were not leaving it up to philosophy , they wanted their deer down and dead! When you use heavy bullets construction isn’t as big a deal !




          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Pmacc60 View Post
            Honk you realize the Nosler partition is not new technology , the Partition has been around since 1948 .
            Yes, but those old machined Partitions were terrible expensive. Not a working man's ammo.

            Comment


            • #51
              I think it's ridiculous to think there's any real difference in impact performance between 150g and 180g bullets from a .30-06, that's just old geezer talk. Bullet construction and shot placement remains paramount.

              Here's an interesting article from American Rifleman on the subject:

              A New Ruling for the .30-06 Sprg.
              https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...he-30-06-sprg/

              "Hunters should amend the unwritten law they’ve obeyed for years and try 150-grain bullets in the .30-’06 for all big game. They’ll be glad they did when they see how effectively these bullets work on game from antelope to elk."
              Trump 2020 - Keep America Great!

              Comment


              • #52
                From PigHunter- "Hunters should amend the unwritten law they’ve obeyed for years and try 150-grain bullets in the .30-’06 for all big game. They’ll be glad they did when they see how effectively these bullets work on game from antelope to elk."

                I would agree that there is very little difference in the downrange impact of a 165 or 180 gr. bullet traveling somewhat slower, than there is in a faster 150 gr. projectile. However, one thing some gun writers fail to consider, is "What load shoots best?" A lot of gun writers seem to think that any given rifle, say, a .30-'06, will shoot any given load. It just ain't so. Different rifles have different barrel harmonics, and some just will not shoot well except with one particular load.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by crm3006 View Post
                  From PigHunter- "Hunters should amend the unwritten law they’ve obeyed for years and try 150-grain bullets in the .30-’06 for all big game. They’ll be glad they did when they see how effectively these bullets work on game from antelope to elk."

                  I would agree that there is very little difference in the downrange impact of a 165 or 180 gr. bullet traveling somewhat slower, than there is in a faster 150 gr. projectile. However, one thing some gun writers fail to consider, is "What load shoots best?" A lot of gun writers seem to think that any given rifle, say, a .30-'06, will shoot any given load. It just ain't so. Different rifles have different barrel harmonics, and some just will not shoot well except with one particular load.
                  Great and most important point made here CRM3006!. My rifle loved the 165 gr Nos partitions . It wouldn’t shoot 150’s at all so that’s what I use. One of the great misnomers of the 06 is that it’s versatility is in the fact you can shoot 55 gr sabots to 220 grain bullets in the same rifle and you can just not great accuracy through that whole spectrum .

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Pmacc60- Exactly. My old faithful "ugly gun" shoots hot 165 gr. loads. It will put 180 gr. into a group at 200 yds, but that is about it. Not the reliable accuracy I want for deer country where they can hide in brush so deep that buzzards can hardly find them. You don't want a wounded deer to run out of sight in that country. Nor do I want an elk shot that doesn't go down immediately. I've seen how far they can travel, packing a lot of lead. So I go with the most accurate load.

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