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Another BS advertisement. Too bad these outfits can't get someone who has a clue to do their photography. See the first post.

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  • #16
    Fergot pawed, struck n' run over wunst! A cracked rib ain't much fun ahors back!
    Honk! Whi is muules preferable to horses fer packin'?
    Whut's a horse a doin' if'n he's a "crossfirin'"?


    • #17


      • #18
        Helps ol' Honk feel ejumicated!

        Me'n th wife attended a "rode-show" nigh to Foat Wuth back about Y2K where the youngest was doin' sum rodeo'n and sum promo work.
        Fella wirkin' th main arener gate wuz a really pleasant fella but he ain't never straddled a hoss. Me'n him had shook a year er so erlier.
        Jack had a brand spanking nu set uv spurs strapped to his ACME's.
        "You bull ridin' tonite, Jack?"
        "Naw, jist bought these spurs today an thought I'd wear 'em tonite to break 'em in."
        "Mity fine lookin' spurs, Jack."

        See, I NO y'ain't gotta break on spurs, but Jack weren't prone to braggin ',so let it go!


        • #19
          Appreciate your confession, Bubba. Still not sure why you would have done that. I generally reserve minuses for people who misbehave. Very rare that I hit the red button. Do you think I'm blowing hot air? I have loaded up more than a few elk. That should be obvious from looking at my profile. And yes, I shod my own livestock and some of the government's too. I'm sure I can still do it (incidentally, I'm a cold shoer which is a helluva lot harder work than hot shoeing). And I'm also sure most guys who have done shoeing of any kind can't still do it at age 60. Diamond hitch is indeed mostly for showboats but if you have something to top pack they are essential. No other way that I know of to make it stick. Most guys get themselves in trouble with top packs though as they tend to put too much weight up there, causing the saddle to swing and sore the horse. Yes I know all about the difference between packing horses and mules. Believe I have run through that on here more than once: A horse can safely pack 1/4 its own weight in dead weight. A mule can pack 1/3 its weight [and even more if you know what you're doing - I know an old timer who once packed a piano on a mule]. But as far as I'm concerned the side-effects of packing mules outweighs the advantages. They are usually nearly impossible to shoe without throwing them on the ground. Often they're a pain to load and most of them can't be ridden. Even if they can be ridden you can't use a regular horse saddle because their backs are built differently. So once the pack mule hauls stuff in to camp it becomes useless. It just eats feed till it's time to pack stuff out again. A pack horse, on the other hand, can be put into the riding lineup during the hunting trip ensuring that there's always a rested mount available every day. Are you still thinking I'm blowing hot air?

          Bubba, I'm not really larger than life. My life has just been larger than most other people's lives ... well, the lives people choose or are forced to live these days. Fifty years ago my life would not have been extraordinary. Many of my dad's contemporaries lived a lot bigger ones than mine. I am pleased that Dakota is anxious to learn something on here and I dearly wish I could be there to watch him learn. I may make it yet. United has just opened service from here to Chicago so maybe I can fly back home for that stupid hearing. I really wanted to be in Montana by the middle of October this year. Especially so I could meet Dakota.


          • #20
            OH- politics and bear baiting aside you'll not receive a red check from me. And I'd just asoon not talk either of em with you as I quite like your writings and enjoy the informational posts. I'd be curios to hear bubas explanation of a crossfire, and I'd be equally as curious to see if he knows what a split-eared horse refers to. I'd rather cold shoe than hot shoe any day, but I'm sure that's just personal preference to labor styles. Couldn't agree with you more about a decker, but don't under-rate a sawbuck as they do have their place. I've got 5 of my six layin down with a kiss a coue and giving them their head. Don't under-rate that either as it means alot when you have a busted up leg or want to put up a heavy top pack. Happy trails to You O.H., I hope you and Dakota do get to meet up, seems like a campfire most of us would like to smell the smoke of.


            • #21
              Honk, you expect it. Didn't want to disappoint you!
              Next, I'd wager a dime to a rolling donut hole the picture was snapped (or photo shopped!) by some geek who wouldn't know a horse from Adam's off ox! Who cares what's wrong with the picture, OR the outfit?!
              I'd even wager "IF" there truly was a "guy" on a horse, the last thing on his mind was riding 20 miles out into the Wind River range or the Bob Marshall Wilderness!

              The "ad critique"?
              A man who really knows "what's what" about packing can see any problems at a glance and doesn't need a blow hard telling him.
              Anybody going into the detail you went into, knowing full well it's a fake, ain't doing nothing but trying to show just how knowledgeable "HE" is!

              "Them that can, do! Them that wish they could, talk about it! "

              Knew two fellers back home that shod drafts up into their 80's.

              You only shoe a mules front feet. Where the front feet go, the back ones gotta go!

              A "hot" shoe burned into the hoof fits snugger and stays on longer. Cold shoes can leave gaps between hoof and shoe and loosen quicker.


              • #22
                Oh! Honk! BTW!
                Didn't say you "deserved" the ding, just that you expected it!



                • #23
                  Bubba, a cold shoe can be made to fit nearly as tight as a hot set one ... IF you take the time and have the skill to do it right. That's why it's much harder work. Too many lazy hot shoers make the horse's foot fit the shoe rather than the shoe fit the horse. I only ever lost one shoe and that was on a new horse. I didn't have the right size so tried to make do. I always kept a cut down pair of alligators in the saddle bag and after about five miles on new shod horses I'd get off and re-clinch them if needed. Seldom was needed.

                  My hat's off to anyone who can still walk without support in their 80s let alone shoe a horse. Very rare.

                  That ad was clearly not photoshopped. Very genuine. It wasn't totally silly like the magazine cover. For example, I see a LOT of guys riding with hiking boots and leather bound stirrups. Most don't even know what overshoe stirrups are. Someone clued me in when I started out with backcountry livestock and I have been eternally grateful (besides being safer, they're much more comfortable). So I pass the word along every chance I get. At least the guy had some footwear that was actually useful for hunting (as opposed to the packer boots most of the wannabe backcountry horsemen buy which have little or no tread on the bottom).

                  The most important point I was making (and I stated it pretty clearly) was that some folks could see something like this and make a big mistake thinking that's the way to do it. Not sure how you can reinterpret that as banging my own drum. Also, this is an ad for an OUTFITTER. Kinda makes one wonder what kind of outfitter would load up a trophy elk rack that way. Well, of course nobody that knew anything would do it that way. So what does that say about the management? Perhaps if they read this they'll hire someone else to do their PR.

                  Bubba, don't "expect" me to throw red flags on your posts. I'm grown up enough to tell you what I think. We're on here to openly share opinions and thoughts ... with maturity. We're not always going to agree on everything but that's really a good thing. If it's handled the right way.

                  The only "crossfire" I ever got was from a mule whose front end was hobbled and had a hind leg tied up. He still managed to kick me with the free leg while I was working on the foot that was tied up. Or perhaps you're referring to hobbling a front foot to opposite hind foot when the horse is allowed to forage at camp? Better get on your walking shoes after breakfast because that nag is going to be back at the trailer by dawn. Been there done that! The best picketing setup is to cut a hobble in two, use a quick-link to hook one hobble half to ten feet of small chain (1 inch?), bowline ten feet of half inch nylon rope to the opposite end of chain. Braid a loop in the free end of rope. Buy a heavy screw eye, open it, slip in a large ring (salvage one from a rotten cinch), close up screw eye. At camp find a sturdy log about four or five feet long that weighs sixty pounds or so. Sink the screw-eye/ring into the log towards one end. Make a slip loop with the braided loop on free end of the rope, pass it through the ring, and around the log. Attach the hobble to one FRONT leg of the picket horse, put the bell on her, and go to bed. She'll be able to drag the log around but just barely. The chain will lay flat on the ground so the horse doesn't get tangled in it. She'll be where you can catch her in the morning and also tanked up (at least a bit) from grazing through the night. Am I "banging my own drum" here or just passing on an excellent tip? Maybe I could have died in a car wreck tomorrow and just taken that hard-earned knowledge to my grave instead? Or maybe it makes more sense for me to share it if I have an opportunity.


                  • #24
                    Pray: All I have ever owned was a sawbuck and I did fine with it. But I packed boxes. Mantied loads or stuff tossed in panniers packs much better and safer on a decker. Occasionally I have seen sawbucks with half-breed and packboards but that is usually only standard equipment on a decker. Deckers with cast Ds are just about useless but seems that's all one can buy anymore. Drop them on their side or get in a wreck and the casting breaks. Very hard to find deckers with forged Ds these days. Also, one can readjust a forged decker to fit the horse by heating the Ds. Won't work with cast Ds.


                    • #25
                      One definite advantage decker has over sawbuck is that pack ropes have to be pulled through the Ds. Consequently, a sawbuck may pack up faster and safer (no rope flipping around as it's pulled through the Ds on a decker) but the load is not as secure, especially if there's a wreck. That may or may not be a bad thing. And when using the barrel hitch with a naked sawbuck (one without a half-breed), it is possible for the pack ropes to work themselves under the end of the tree. Not good for the horse! And as I'm sure Bubba knows, barrel hitch is used exclusively for loading hind quarters of elk.


                      • #26
                        "...the only "crossfire" I ever got was from a mule..."

                        So it's safe to say, there are some aspects of horses you're totally ignorant about! Huh, Honk?


                        • #27
                          Well, of course a barrel hitch is not used "exclusively" for loading hind quarters. Poor choice of words. Also used for loading barrels (obviously!) and hay bales among other things.


                          • #28
                            Bubba- do you know how to fix a horse that consistently crossfires? Or is it safe to say that you only know what a crossfiring horse is doing wrong?


                            • #29
                              Bubba, I'm always anxious to learn as well as teach. But there are others who disdain learning ... and teachers. Had a black horse like that once. Made my hunting and fishing trips miserable. Hardheaded basterd thought he knew everything but he knew nothing and I couldn't teach him a damn thing either. So he went to the auction. Why waste my time with that?

                              Pray, I peeked: crossfire is an incorrect gait. I am not familiar with it because 1) I don't claim to be a horse trainer and never bothered with it. Too expensive to have to waste that much time and hay and pasture on a colt that isn't ready to work. I was a working man with limited resources and no land. And 2) I work horses, I don't play with them. A cross-firing horse would probably do just fine packing stuff (though I suspect punching cows wouldn't be much fun!). Cross-firing is apparently not something that can be corrected by adjusting shoeing like some other problems. I didn't pretend to be a corrective farrier either because I would never own or shoe a horse young enough to benefit from it. Or be hurt by it if done incorrectly. I can adjust shoeing to correct over-reaching but usually only temporarily.


                              • #30
                                Country Boy, if you see someone get a minus one that didn't deserve it just click on the plus one to clean the slate.
                                The blade cuts both ways, if somebody received a plus one for saying the word “No” just click on the minus one to take it off.

                                I can’t believe Ontario Honker would even get a minus one?
                                He never insults anybody, he never gets into pissing matches, he never doubts anybody comment or question, he is just a loveable guy on this website. Ha Ha, Only Joking!

                                All jokes aside, I like Ontario Honker comments because he does tell it like it is. Ontario never beats around the bush. Many times I laugh at his comments because he can be rough on people.
                                When Ontario gets a minus one because someone is “holding axe to grind” I take it off with a plus one.




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