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Started out on wrong foot I think (bow tuning headache)

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  • Started out on wrong foot I think (bow tuning headache)

    OK, I've had a few dozen bows, and for the last decade or so have used papertune.
    It has always worked, and when good, if checked w bareshaft, proved to be good.

    So...........I get this recurve, newer version of one I had before (actually had two older versions).
    I shoot off the shelf and use a toothpick behind velcro, to build out sideplate/shelf and have tangential points of contact (velcro gapped for quill clearance).

    Had my arrows from the last bow (both older models B50).

    So I slapped on the rest and hopped on the patio to papertune.

    Horrible nock left. Like 1.5". That would be "weak spine" so I yank the 100gr brass insert (using 125gr tip) and use the reg 13 gr alum insert. OK, better but still nock left.

    Hmm, appears my arrow aint out far enough. Fetch 1/8 rod and put behind velcro.
    Looks good, or so I thought.

    Shoot and still nock left w old arrows, lighter insert one is 1/8" nock left tear.
    Yank fletch, and cut an inch off. I get holes and no tears, but nothing nock right.

    Right handed, I'd like a little nock right.

    Never had a bow start out weak, have to tune coming from other direction.

    Hold on a minute...........grab bow, sit in chair, place bow in knees, good lighting, sight down shaft.
    Uh, it's centered, like a release compound setup. Maybe slightly out.

    Not enough that's for sure.

    Guess this newer version of that model more cut past center.
    Good thing I didn't chop all my arrows.

    Played with 3 Rivers spine calculator, backfed what I had on another wood riser bow (on their model list) and indeed, the calclator had it at 2# diff. It shot bullet holes. get the calculator that close, I had to consider the added weight to the insert (Gold tip) as a "footing".

    Doing that with my current bow (using diff model but same maker) my old arrows should have worked.
    But they didn't. They were an exact match.

    Note: did not need fudge factor at bottom of calculator. current model (still an old metal riser no longer made- but of changes compared to older versions) cut more past center.

    I may have used a 1/8" rod behind my velcro sideplate once, maybe not. But on this bow, it wasn't enough.
    Kinda threw me for a while.

    I shot and shot and shot, yanked inserts, had a bud check it........just chased my tail.
    And maybe because I just started out too far inside. And never got it outside.

    Others were too far outside and brought in.


    Think the problem is solved.
    The papertune showed a legit nock left, but not weak spine, just not in the setup window.
    I knew chopping it, changing tip weight, should have shifted a .400 spine super stiff, and it didn't.
    Other .500 w tip game showed the same, so it was not a crash (overpine showing weak) was just inside too much the whole time......well until i took an inch off the test arrow, and yanked the heavy insert.

    That one makes holes, not tears, and is better than what most folks proly get.
    But I arrived coming from the other direction and that irked me.

    Not good enough.

    Will build sideplate out and test tomorrow.
    Would not surprise me to find out my old bows arrows (60# B50) work just fine on this newer one, 54# and FF rated.

    Times like these, glad I didn't own a saw at home, might have screwed up a bunch of arrows (not really just need to run heavier tips).

    I used a starting point that was good and an ending point) on previous bows of same manufacture, but older model............and it was starting out too far in.

    In my defense, I did get glasses, bifocals, and have astigmatism. Not wearing them though..............that's my story and I'm sticking with it

  • #2
    So yes, paper tune works. But folks seeing nock left would assume a weak arrow.
    Nope, what worked was super stiff.
    Past exp said it should be pretty hefty nock right (right handed).
    That said something else was amiss, was not just an arrow issue.

    Bareshaft testing was same as papertune.

    There are a few ways to tune a bow, and each works. But that assumes the person is doing the test right, and is interpreting the results correctly.

    I knew what should work, and when it didn't had to go back to the start and check things.
    Got my calipers out and did some measuring, indeed, this riser is cut more past center.
    My arrow needs to come out just a bit.

    Been an ordeal. Did shoot a bud's new Blackwidow PCH.........ironwood w bamboo limbs.
    Oh man was it sweet.

    My bow was very quiet, so that too told me I wasn't getting too much spine and crashing riser.
    Could get a group, and fletched old arrows flew OK ......but impacted a bit left.

    They were not the darts like they were from prev bow.
    Even my bad eyes knew they weren't right.

    I'll have the tune done tomorrow, and proly be running my old arrows, unmodified.


    • #3
      That is all too complicated. My Club is having a bow clinic at the indoor range so I am going to take my old Jennings Buckmaster to have it checked out. Never hunted with it but have shot it a bit. I may try it this year. One blind I have is only good for X-bow. I sold my climber so keep both feet on the ground now. My old 300 Barret is slow and heavy but deadly accurate.


      • #4
        Just threw me for a minute, as I always had arrow to outside looking down string centered. Easy to tune arrows (carbons). My eyeballs got me started wrong side so everything was funky. Thought one thing, testing showed opp. Now I know why.

        Been doing bow setup for 35 yrs. Owned dozens myself, helped coworkers, guys at clubs and even worked at a shop.

        Have only had two times stuff was a bit odd.

        1. going to drop away rest, using eliminator buttons/release. FP and BH showed vert impact diff. Previous rest was dampening in vert and horiz axis. The drop away wasn't. Changed to strong loop and both hit the same. I dislike string loops because they change anchor point on me.

        2. This bow, BW recurve, old metal riser.....cut more past center. Just slapped rest on like prev bow and was too far inside. Visual check was in error. Testing and later visual check showed the prob.

        I don;t shoot to get an OK group. I test for best arrow setup. When I do that I get a little forgiveness. Being on the edge of good, could mean a problem if not executed perfectly. I want in the middle of the good That would be great.

        MAGA (make arrows great again).

        Only reason I need a shop, is for a bowpress or arrow saw. Used to work for local pro shop. They let me use their stuff.


        • #5
          I've shot carbons on about a dozen recurves, this the only WTH?
          So it was odd/frustrating.
          Until I rechecked and saw things were not as thought.

          Think I have the 3 Rivers spine calculator figured out too.
          Only good if you know exactly what you have data wise to plug in.
          Then it seems to work.

          Known goods did not check (prev bow) until I entered the added weights to insert as "footing".
          Then it showed great match.

          Just passed that along in case folks are using it and getting odd numbers.


          • #6
            I have seen countless folks shoot so so groups and think they are good to go.
            Slap on a BH and they can't hit.
            Or if they can adjust sights for the impact change, think they then are good to go.
            Until arrow smacks meat......usually poor penetration the result.

            I want my arrows flying beautifully. I don't settle for "good enough".
            My being picky has gotten me routine pass throughs on deer.

            And when I shot 3D my scores were decent (and I shot for fun, from the compound stakes).

            Had an MBA at work, swear his bow tuned. Met at range and it was horrible flight. I tuned his recurve and he shot it. He was shocked, as he couldn't see his arrows fly anymore.
            They were like bullets

            Bad group, bad flight, better group, better flight..............he witnessed a trend and thought he had arrived. Until I actually got him set up right, he just didn't "get it". Emails and other.........was a hassle. an hr on the range and my tuning his bow..............then the lightbulb came on.

            Was at indoor club, bowyer and pals there. Same thing.
            My bow was fast and quiet, they couldn't believe it. Til they shot it.
            What'd the first guy say?

            "Hey, I can't see these arrows fly".

            Yeah buddy, you aint supposed to.


            • #7
              Just thought it funny, as I know what to do..........and have had problem free setups/tunes..............but for whatever reasons started out on the wrong foot and had a bit of an ordeal. Until I went back to the start.

              Eh, it happens. Proly gonna happen more the older I get.

              The witch told me to quit messing with it and order a new Blackwidow. $1100 bucks.
              She didn't offer to buy it..............


              • #8
                You helped me out a couple years ago with my setup. Switching to 125’s from 100’s helped a bunch. I’m sure it could be better. Went to a drop away before that, but still using eliminator buttons with my Winn Free Flight release as it won’t work with loops. Season opens tomorrow and I haven’t practiced, mostly because I’m still “guiding” the kid. This is the last year he legally has to have me there, but my daughter’s next in line. She probably won’t want to sit as often as he will so I may start from scratch next year. Still like my Switchback, but 70lbs is getting to be too much. Hate the idea of backing it down but may try it first.


                • #9
                  Dude, gimme a 35" axle to axle or longer, eliminator buttons and a Fletchunter shorty wrist release and im a happy camper! While I shoot recurve mostly, still dig wheels.....even cam/ lever bows LOL.

                  Helical fletch and 125s have worked well for me on deer. Boringly good flight w fixed blade heads. Did run Blazer vanes once.....shot fine ( on mu switxhback XT).

                  Yup, everything hurts anymore. Cam lever bows super smooth........migjt be easier on the bod


                  • #10
                    My youngest has had both shoulders worked on. Doc said 30# max. She wants something to shoot in back yard. Dunno if fingers or release. Release might be less risk to hand ...... connective tissue disorder.

                    Need to check on that Muzzy lv x when it comes back out


                    • #11
                      Switchback was a great little bow and still is AFAIC. Back it dowb to 65 and see if thats comfy. Personally its mass weight that bothers me, not poundage. Well a harsh draw cycle on new hotrod stuff a bit of give at the start





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