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Has anybody figured out how to get steel shot to open up inside 20 yard? I'm shooting a Skeet tube in an 11/87 (actual constric

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  • #31
    Talk about dense! Here is PatternMaster website: www.patternmaster.com/

    The "Code Black" series (the ones in the middle picture in case you can't read) have the wad grabbing "stud ring" (your "little projections") and employ the "millisecond wad delay" technology. Read all about it. Don't bother asking your pal at the gun shop to explain it because he obviously doesn't have a clue either. Or he can't read the literature that comes with the chokes. The company that makes the choke OBVIOUSLY DOES HAVE A CLUE so read what THEY have to say. Now, look at the picture of the Code Black chokes (the ones in the middle). NOTICE THE BIG HOLES IN IT. Those are called "ports".

    PatternMaster doesn't make Flight Control wads. Federal makes them. Why would either company give a flying fart what the other one is making or how or if it conflicts with what they are producing? Flight Control wads are "just the opposite" because Federal is actually designing something that probably works. At least it works with any choke that doesn't have ports. And Federal is not terribly concerned about that because most duck hunters with half a brain and any hearing left at all DON'T WANT PORTED CHOKE TUBES. They want range without punishment. Guys into the home defense gig will gobble up ported chokes ... because it makes them look paramilitary macho. They're too dumb to care about their hearing.

    READ THE "TURKEY COUNTRY" ARTICLE IN THE LINK IN MY EARLIER POST! Here it is again: www.turkeycountrymagazine.com/12MA/MembersOnly/shootingsavvy.html

    It explains very plainly everything you need to know about Flight Control wads. They also explain how those wads were designed to stay with the shot longer and release it slower and how that is achieved. They also explain why Flight Control wads don't work well with ported choke tubes. And the article takes its information straight from the development team at Federal. It's all there.

    But I guess this still doesn't answer your question as to how two exactly "opposite" technologies can claim to achieve the same results. Why should you be so surprised? It's two different companies. Obviously, one or both of them is full of BS. I have no idea if either company can live up to it's promotional propaganda. But I do know that the reasoning behind PatternMaster's technology defies the laws of physics. Any grade school science graduate could see that. If PatternMaster chokes do achieve ANY improvement in pattern density, it has nothing to do with stud rings or twisting gasses or wad-squeezing or millisecond wad retention.

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    • #32
      Keep it simple stupid....the technology in both the Patternmaster, and the Flightstopper wad seaparate the wad from the shot at the muzzle preventing the wadcup from staying with the shot, and opening up out front, and opening up the pattern.

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      • #33
        Don't even know why I do it being it is so obvious Ontario has things backassward again. I went down to my shotshell stash, and pulled out a box of Federal Prairie Storm shells, and they show a picture of what takes place with the Flightstopper wads. You can see by design how the wad gets stalled at the constricted choke muzzle. They show ALL the shot separated from the wad cup 8ft from the muzzle. Blame Ontario's confusion on the -30 degree weather he hunts in.

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        • #34
          I have a box too (Black Cloud). And you're full of crap! The back has an artistic rendition of the shot separating from the wad. That's it! No mention of eight feet or wad stalling in chokes. You just made all that up! If you really had a box to look at you would see that the wad is labeled "FliteControl" not Flightstopper. The Saturn-shaped pellets are called "FliteStopper."

          Since you seem incapable of reading the "Turkey Country" article, let me quote what "Federal engineers" told them: "With a FliteControl wad, as soon as it exits the barrel, the shot is kept inside the wad. There are no slits in the shot cup, and the shot is contained in the wad up to about 10 yards downrange, depending upon the configuration of the wad." Did you get that this time? THE SHOT IS KEPT INSIDE THE WAD AS IT EXITS THE BARREL AND STAYS THERE UP TO TEN YARDS DOWNRANGE! No wad stalling in the chokes ... except when FliteControl wads are fired through ported chokes. And that, according to the article, produces undesired pattern. Clearly, wad-stalling in the choke is PRECISELY what FliteControl wads WERE NOT designed for.

          Anyway, did you really think the FliteControl wad would just trail along right behind the shot string for eight feet after being "stalled" in the choke? Har, har, har! You CAN'T be that stupid! Once the shot is out of the cup the hollow wad essentially becomes a parachute and instantly falls away from the heavier, inertia laden, and more aerodynamic pellets. It would be physically impossible for a wad "stalled" at the choke to follow the shot from which it is separated eight feet past the muzzle.

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          • #35
            I realize "inertia" and "aerodynamic" and "parachute" are pretty big words for a guy who needs to "keep it simple." So read the article. Turkey Country did an excellent job explaining Federal's FliteControl technology in terms simple enough for even stupid people. No one is ever too stupid to learn ... too stubborn maybe.

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            • #36
              Look at the picture federal has put on the box of their Prairie Storm loads, Designed specifically for you. And no need to shoot steel through a full, fixed choke...70 % patterns at 40 yds, using Improved cylinder choke. And that is with lead.

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              • #37
                Correction: The Turkey Country article DOES NOT say ported chokes "stall" FliteControl wads. It only says ported chokes can "damage" the petals on the sides of the wad and these chokes also sometimes causes them to not open properly. This leads to "inconsistent" patterns. Below is exactly what they had to say about ported and PatternMaster type wad-stalling chokes:

                "FliteControl wads can deliver inconsistent patterns when fired through some ported choke tubes or used with wad-stopping or wad-stripping tubes [like PatternMaster]. The rear-braking functionality of the FliteControl wad depends on the proper muzzle pressure of the wad leaving the barrel to open the petals. Ported chokes are designed to reduce muzzle pressure, so sometimes this reduction causes the petals to stay closed, resulting in inconsistent shot patterns."

                Comment


                • #38
                  Huh? Dangle, what has "70% patterns at 40 yds, using Improved Cylinder" got to do with your absurd theories about PatternMaster and FliteControl technology?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Did I use toooo big of words for you to comprehend. Your original contention was the LONGER the shot stayed in the wad cup the tighter the pattern. I said just the opposite happens, and why Federal designed the Flightstopper wad, and Carlson, I believe, designed the Patternmaster screw-in choke tube...separate the shot from the tube early, not later for tighter patterns. So Federal says that using the Flightstopper wad cup you get 70% patterns at 40 yds using an IC choke!!!!!! That is a full choke pattern using an open choke all because they separate the shot from their wadcup early on,,,Now even you should be able to understand that.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Federal doesn't make a Flightstopper wad. I guess you really CAN'T read what's on the box.

                      You believe wrong. PatternMaster makes PatternMaster chokes. They are located in Wisconsin. Carlson is located in Kansas. Carlson does make a choke specifically designed for FliteControl wads. Let's see what they have to say: "The titanium coating helps the uniquely designed FliteControl Wad in the Black Cloud ammunition perform downrange with less build-up in the choke and allows the Flitestopper shot to do its job this [sic] increasing your take in the field." Less "buildup in the choke!" That translates to less constriction or wad-grabbing in the choke. This supposedly allows the FliteControl wad to "perform downrange," not be taken out of action at the muzzle! If you check their website you'll see that none of their chokes have ports except the home defense model. Clearly, Carlson is also on board with Federal's concept of carrying the wad and shot intact further from the muzzle = better pattern at longer distances.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        So now you've diverted your backassward position again to a definition discussion. You know exactly what I am referring to, and so does everyone else that has followed your wrong analysis. Let's forget the product name for diversions sake. Federal makes a wad cup that separates the shot from the wad at the muzzle, and by doing so it can create FULL CHOKE patterns at 40 yds using an Improved Cylinder choke! And the screw in choke maker that makes the choke with the internal projections to slow the wad, and separate it from the shot produces the same results...much tighter patterns, and the OPPOSITE of what you said. End of discussion. You get to keep your reputation by being wrong again.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          And you say so. That makes it so. Doesn't bother you that Federal's engineers say exactly the opposite. Please find me a link that supports what you are saying. Look at Federal's website. Read the product reviews. NO ONE but YOU says Federal FliteControl wads "slow up" at the choke and separate from the shot. No one! Give me a quote from a source that supports your theory. You can't! Gees! Why do you think the FliteControl shot cup is a solid cylinder? SO IT WILL SEPARATE FROM THE SHOT LATER RATHER THAN SOONER. If they wanted the wad and shot to separate sooner, Federal would put MORE slits in the shot cup so it would become a parachute as soon as the wad left the muzzle.

                          You don't understand how FliteControl wads or Carlson and PatternMaster chokes work. You don't have a clue. And that's because you don't want know. You have done exactly zero homework before entering this debate. Zero! And you still won't do any homework. Is that how you told "your students" to learn?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I've got an email into Federal, and will wait for their response.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Be sure and get a name for any response you might want to quote. I will do the same.

                              Comment

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