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Different methods of trophy measurement

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  • Different methods of trophy measurement

    Last week to kill some COVID19 boredom I downloaded Safari Club International's trophy measurement manual to see how my wildebeest scored. Apparently it just barely makes the minimum for mention in their book (by a mere 1/8 point). A few days later further boredom peaked my curiosity and I checked the manual to see what SCI's minimum book score is for Rocky Mountain elk. What? Only 264? Boone & Crockett minimum book score is almost a hundred points more (360). Does SCI measure differently? I thumbed back to their measurement instruction page. Nope. Sure looks the same. I pulled out the hard copy of my official B&C measured 1971 bull. Well, there is an obvious difference. B&C shows seven and eight points to a side in their diagram while SCI only shows six points. Turns out SCI classifies elk in two categories: typical and non-typical. Both B&C and SCI have similar dual classifications for muleys and whitetail but B&C lumps all elk racks together. So with them my 6x6 was competing with royal racks (7 pt per side) and monarchs (8 pt+ per side). No wonder B&C minimum book score is much higher! At 356 points my nearly perfect 6x6 would undoubtedly score very high in SCI typical elk category. Fortunately I still have the newspaper clipping with photo and story to confirm date and details of the kill. SCI requires a photo of the hunter with animal on the ground but in extraordinary situations will accept other evidence. Back in those days few hunters carried bulky fragile cameras along when elk hunting.

    Anyway, what the heck. I'll see if I can find an official SCI measurer to do both racks and maybe my 1980 elk. Even with a broken point that one might make their minimum. Of course SCI doesn't put stuff in their books for free. But I have been toying with the idea of joining anyway. Their publications are really something. And who knows, maybe it will give me the incentive to bite the bullet and brave the crowds at a convention. I'm sure Happy could chime in and sing some other praises for joining.
    Last edited by Ontario Honker Hunter; 05-21-2020, 12:29 PM.

  • #2
    I'm not a big fan of "trophy". Especially when it comes to scoring.
    Not that he was any massive deer, but I had a buck measured for a Cy Curtis Award. An Oklahoma award kinda like B&C or, I guess, SCI.
    They measure all kinds of different things. Beam diameter, tine length, etc, etc.
    They calculate each side for a "score".
    Then they calculate the difference between the two sides and subtract that from the "gross" score!
    I thought the idea was the amount of antler.
    Cy Curtis requires a score of 140 or better. My buck didn't make it for final or gross score.

    You can have a B&C head and if it's not perfectly symmetrical, then it isn't a B&C head.

    Guy back home shot a buck that grossed 175 B&C. Enough to qualify for inclusion in B&C.
    The left G2 had a 6" long second tine. His final score was 169".
    The rack was no less impressive because of the extra tine.
    I thought the score was antler length and mass, not symmetry?
    If symmetry is the goal, say so up front.

    But then, B&C and SCI really couldn't care less what I think! LOL!

    Comment


    • #3
      I've always thought the opportunity to meet and converse with people who like to hunt as much as we do was the biggest advantage. Interesting points you mentioned on the differences in trophy measurement.

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      • #4
        There are four main organizations sponsoring trophy measurements and each have their own criteria. Rowland and Ward mostly African, Boone & Crockett only North America, SCI everywhere, and Pope & Young archery. I have never entered a trophy even though have several that qualify. If an animal really stands out while at a taxidermist, often it will get measured by someone out of curiosity. As DakotaMan mentioned. Being involved with these organizations helps one to find out what is going on when and where in the hunting world. Attending SCI and DSC makes figuring out where to go and with whom much easier. When I first began hunting outside of my familiar areas it was difficult to get information as I had no contacts with with hunting world’s, “ln Group”.

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        • #5
          Happy - You must be in their "Inner Circle" by now.
          I was a member of SCI years ago, and I loved receiving their publications.
          I even pasted their decal on the rear window of my Jeep, and it soon became a conversational piece.
          Last edited by 99explorer; 05-21-2020, 04:10 PM.

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          • #6
            Honker -
            As you know, it doesn't take much to bump your "typical" rack into the "non-typical" category, but it takes a lot more to get it up there in the high scoring-territory, like this:
            Last edited by 99explorer; 05-21-2020, 04:11 PM.

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            • #7
              Bubba: SCI and B&C both have categories for "typical" and "non-typical" deer. The word typical implies some emphasis on being symmetrical ... just as non-typical clearly implies assymmetrical. Not sure why anyone should be surprised when extra points are not counted for typical measurement. Similarly, when one antler point exceeds the length of its opposing point, the length of the shorter point counts for both sides. The difference, which makes them assymetrical, is not calculated.
              Last edited by Ontario Honker Hunter; 05-21-2020, 05:35 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Happy Myles View Post
                There are four main organizations sponsoring trophy measurements and each have their own criteria. Rowland and Ward mostly African, Boone & Crockett only North America, SCI everywhere, and Pope & Young archery. I have never entered a trophy even though have several that qualify. If an animal really stands out while at a taxidermist, often it will get measured by someone out of curiosity. As DakotaMan mentioned. Being involved with these organizations helps one to find out what is going on when and where in the hunting world. Attending SCI and DSC makes figuring out where to go and with whom much easier. When I first began hunting outside of my familiar areas it was difficult to get information as I had no contacts with with hunting world’s, “ln Group”.
                Because my daughter and I are now in the taxidermy business is the chief reason I've taken an interest in scoring. Clients really like it when I do up a measurement form to go with their racks. But always clearly stamped "UNOFFICIAL" in red ink. Perhaps one of us should consider becoming official scorer?

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                • #9
                  You dont have a BC or PY buck unless it meets their requirements.

                  160 for a whitetail ( net ) is minimum for typical catagory.....for "awards" but its 170 to make the " all time" record book. So a " book " buck for BC has a min net req of 170.


                  I dont see why people get bent about it

                  Records system thats been around forever
                  Want in their book, meet their scores.

                  IIRC Buckmasters didnt have deductions.

                  You hear folks talk about how much their Buckmaster bucks scored? Yeah, me neither

                  Think same system, just no dedictions.

                  Always considered that to be a " participation trophy " kinda thing.

                  Lotsa people want PY or BC bucks but then whine about not making ot

                  Cant have it both ways

                  I know folks w bucks that make the book, and have not had their deer scored. They dont care.

                  Know others with walls full of close but no cigar and ya cant cant shut em up about scores.

                  I have a 177 gross 166 net. Brow split cost me 5.5".

                  My state min score for their book is 140. Hes in there. Could spend $ for some B&C " award " but he aint good enough for the book, so I wont

                  Does their system upset me? Nope.
                  Am I mad my deer had a split that knocked him out? Nope. He is what he is.

                  Maybe I will get a book buck. Maybe I wont. Changing the system for whiners sucks. I still am pissed P&Y changed their rules several yrs back.

                  Todays deer mgmnt proly makes big bucks more common.

                  Heard folks say if they had to cheat to get in the book they would....use lighted sights, break off offending pointS.....use radios......really told me about their character.

                  Some accomplished hunters too..... accomplished.......not by any book records though....LOL



                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Id like a 125 net buck this yr w bow.
                    Thats P&Y min.

                    Something to look fwd to.... the chance of it. Free ranging too. No food plots or supplements or QDM.
                    Small parcel hunting too.

                    A book deer there is more of an accomplishment IMHO.

                    Of course I could drop 3k for a 2 day hunt w much higher odds.

                    Dunno if I would even if I had the money.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Symmetry is part of the B&C/ P&Y system.

                      Always has been.

                      So your buds buck w the offending to score tine isnt a book buck.

                      Thats why they have gross and net measurments.

                      Those that dont make the book see it as a punishment.

                      Those that have critters that make the book see it as a reward.

                      Perspective

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Not semantics....but you either have a B&C head or you dont.

                        The gross score is one thing
                        What matters to the book is net.

                        The gross is important as comparing the two tells how symmetrical the rack is.

                        OPs friend shot a high gross buck that didnt net enough for the book.
                        Cant claim it was a B&C that lost status

                        He had enough to possibly make it.

                        Kinda like basketball. Halftime up by 50 points. Maybe a record in that.

                        But at the end of the game buzzer if youre behind you lose.

                        Wins matter.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ontario, a million years or so ago I took the SCI scorers course at their annual convention. I never became an official measurer but the course helps me with some of the subtleties of judging animals in the wild. Especially elk.

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                          • #14
                            Enjoy your deer. If its a big one, maybe enjoy it more. Maybe even a little more if it makes a book.

                            Its up to you to enjoy your deer.

                            To some records matter, to some they dont. To a lot not making the book really bothers them.... for some reason.

                            Having killed enough stuff, Id like to hold out for better than avg. Preferably a book deer. But my current area isnt as good as my old one.

                            And I like to grill venison.

                            A 120" gross is hard to let walk at ten yards LOL.

                            ​​​​​​​Like old Loony Toons big bad wolf .....tend to see them piggies like sausage figurines

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Coulda woulda shoulda.....if it doesnt make the book.....try again next year.

                              Thats how I look at it.

                              I shot my recurve well and had an easy P&Y score buck at 35 yds, broadside, looking away....open.

                              But he had been spooked and recurve arrows aint fast. So rather than risk it, let him go. Saw in gun season, watched him....within range.....but wanted to save him for bow. Of course I never saw him again 145 class.

                              Had another run in after a doe. Stopped behind triple trunk tree....nothing but azz hanging out. 70# compound. Coulda ham shot him

                              140" deer at 10 yards.

                              He left in line w trees, never got a shot.

                              Aint getting in the book w an azz shot. Nope.

                              Aint worth it



                              Last edited by CD2; 05-21-2020, 06:09 PM.

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