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The "Wolf Coalition" is a group of Wyoming sportsmen, business associations, and insurance companies whose goal is to de-list th

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  • #31
    Sorry first sentence should have said I dont think religious beliefs have any thing to do with it.


    • #32
      Ken the fact is your plan as previously presented is workable to some degree and not totally different from that proposed by the state of Wyoming and supported by the Wolf Coalition. Unfortunately the people in control of this issue do not agree with you as they apparently feel this type of control plan is, to be blunt, simply a bunch of crap. I have been a resident of Wyoming since 1981, many years with the native wolves plus many with the aliens and their offspring, I can assure you that the various Idaho posters do, in fact, know exactly what they are talking about. What they possess and what I have that unfortunately neither you or Shane can understand is experience. Certainly experience can be long but narrow. The length of experience of the guys from Idaho rivals mine and any lack of width is because we tend to focus on the wilderness. I cherish this geographical feature of the United States and the lifestyle, of wild creatures as well as humans, more than any other area. Living and hunting with an excess population of wolves yields us a constant view of the ever changing lack of balance established by the federal based bureaucrats due to poor decisions backed up by even worse ones concerning wolves. We see it on each of our numerous trips to the back country in and around the Yellowstone ecosystem. No amount of lying by anyone will change our opinions as we know what the truth is and its not what you or I want. In a sense we saw the same type of ineptness during and after the Yellowstone fire of '88.
      Shane I will defend your right to state your opinion forever. Unfortunately a casual cruise through the western highways does not add much validity to your views. Ken I would like to say that I hope you get your wolves but I would not wish that devastation on any hunter's environment.


      • #33
        again guys, real classy on the negative feedback for someone expressing rational thought.


        It is easy to turn this into an "us vs them" or "east vs west" issue, but that really isn't doing it justice.

        Living in a place for a long time dong does not mean you understand the natural laws that govern that place. For instance, there are millions of skilled boat captains who couldn't calculate out the Archimedes integral that shows how and why their boat floats.

        This does not make them bad captains, it just shows why scientists and engineers are so important.

        Your opinions are based on misunderstanding some of the basic laws of nature.

        ->It is IMPOSSIBLE for there to be "an excess population" of wolves for more than a few months. (The concept is called carrying capacity, I encourage you to look it up and not take my word for it.)

        ->It is IMPOSSIBLE "wolves to devastate an environment" Wolves are a key part of the environment. This would be like saying that a kidney transplant would devastate a dialysis patient! An ecosystem without a keystone predator is an unhealthy ecosystem. Introducing wolves makes the environment MORE healthy, not LESS. (the appropriate topic to look up for this one would be "keystone predators")

        ->Finally, Adaptive management is currently used to manage migratory birds by the feds, deer herds by many states, and commercial fisheries around the world. It is about as far from "a bunch of crap" as a management policy could possibly be. It is a complex system rooted in sound mathematics that again, I encourage you to read up on.

        Equating an adaptive management system to Wyoming's "shoot all wolves on sight" policy is LITERALLY like saying that hyper-spacial vector calculus is "just like" adding 2+2!


        • #34
          Ken I appreciate your opinion and have never issued you a negative. That said I have to state that in my opinion you continually miss a few essential points in accepting the global picture of adequate management of the wilderness environment. I attribute that to the lack of realistic achieveable processes which are the result, more than likely, of your personal environment and social/business related pressures. Example is that Wyoming has no "shoot all wolves on sight" policy although you apparently readily assume that the state does mandate this unacceptable procedure. I simply ask that you get your facts straight before you attempt to BS us. I actually am beginning to think that you must be a federal employee, but then I could be wrong as it would not be the first time. I do enjoy your commentary but am weary of this conversation which is now proceeding in circles arriving at no conclusions.


          • #35
            I know that because you live there, you think you have a monopoly on western wildlife knowledge, but I've seen the same things you have. I've been way the hell out there too. I saw no devastation. Just elk.


            • #36
              The idea that the reintroduced wolves from Canada are different species or sub species from what once occurred in the northern Rockies is wholly preposterus. Wolves disperse over great distances. Wolves had already returned to northwest Montana by the late 1980s. Where did they come from? Canada, where else. Given protection and time they no doubt would have made it to Yellowstone. They would have been "Canadian wolves." The Wyoming Wolf Coalition anfd Farm Bureaus should find something productive to do with themselves. Oh yes, the size of the reintroduced wolves. Well, they are probably smaller than the "buffalo wolf" that once occurred throughout the West. But they are bigger than the southwestern Mexican wolf. The size arguement is ridiculous. The wolves are here to stay. Wyoming Farm Bureau, State of Wyoming, etc. why don't you folks tell your anscestors who destroyed the bison herds, the Idian's life, etc. that you're going to beg off on this one, and begin to join the 21st century.


              • #37
                Good post!




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