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The "Wolf Coalition" is a group of Wyoming sportsmen, business associations, and insurance companies whose goal is to de-list th

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  • The "Wolf Coalition" is a group of Wyoming sportsmen, business associations, and insurance companies whose goal is to de-list th

    The "Wolf Coalition" is a group of Wyoming sportsmen, business associations, and insurance companies whose goal is to de-list the non-native Canadian gray wolf introduced into our beloved mountains by the USFW back in the nineties. Consequently all original criteria has been met or exceeded insofar as number of breeding pairs and packs. The feds will not accept Wyoming's action plan. These alien creatures are devouring our game herds in spite of the bogus statistics presented nationally by the employees of the USFW. Consequently the "Wolf Coalition" attorneys announced on April 2 that they intend to sue the U.S. Secretary of Interior, the USFW and it national director as well as the Rocky Mountain Region director. Wyoming is sick of wolves, do you want these 120 plus pound animals feeding on big game in your neck of the woods?

  • #2
    Killing off a species and then reintroducing them doesn't qualify them as aliens. You might be sick of wolves, but the ecosystem isn't.


    • #3
      The native wolves were here before the introduction, I first encountered them in 1988. The wolves brought here by the feds were from Canada, I believe they indeed are aliens as I see no sign of American citizenship although I suppose their offspring do qualify. There was a purpose in the "wolfers" (yes this was a trade in the 1880's and 90's) and indeed it was to eliminate the native wolves on behalf of the stockmen. They almost totally performed this task. Nevertheless, the present wolf condition is rapidly getting out of control mainly due to little or no control from the feds who won't allow Wyoming to manage the situation. The ecosystem is suffering greatly due to this poor decision made by "knowledgeable" bureaucrats. Again I ask, shane do you want these animals running through your woods chasing and catching the deer you hunt, your dogs and horses, and you? If so come to Wyoming pick up a pair and haul their butts home with you. The best visual examples I can offer are on Youtube. Give a look at what wolves can do to deer, elk, and bears. There is a reason that you can buy two wolf tags in many parts of Canada. We only want one tag each in Wyoming.


      • #4
        In most places, I am for wolf delisting. But to say they are aliens and don't belong there is a little off base. I've been out there, I've seen the ecosystem, I've talked with biologists that also happen to be hunters, and we all agree that the ecosystem is about as close to as it should be/was as it ever will be. Biodiversity is up. Species that have been missing are back. Some limited wolf hunting in many places is about due now too, but eliminating or decimating the wolf population again would be selfish, foolish, and would reek of anthropic bias.

        There are still plenty of elk. I almost hit a few in the road. They are still all over. They aren't supposed to be just everywhere and easy to hunt. They aren't whitetail deer. If you want to shoot animals that are everywhere and easy to find, come east and shoot whitetails. This is me assuming that you are one of the many that have complained about the lowered elk numbers. I could be wrong.

        Deer, elk, and bears have survived millennia of wolves. They will carry on as they always have.

        As for the ranchers, get out your rifles. If you want to ranch in wolf country, you have to deal with wolves.


        • #5
          Maybe Michigan should start a chapter of the "Wolf Coalition" in our Upper Peninsula. They decimate the deer/moose population, and our beloved DNR says they are not the cause of the declining herds. Eventhough winterkill has been extremely low the last couple years, it is supposedly still the culprit. I say shoot, shovel, and shut up! If the DNR isn't going to take care of the problem, maybe sportsman will have to cull the packs.


          • #6
            Shane - Finally, someone on this site who agrees with me.

            Lets straiten some things out-
            1)first, this is NOT a debate over weather or not the wolf is in danger of being extinct.

            2)This IS a debate over weather or not predators belong in our modern, healthy ecosystems.

            3)The feds are not allowing Wyoming to have control over wolf conservation policy. This is NOT because the feds are evil overlords bent on dominating the lowly farmers. This IS because Wyoming has clearly stated that they have no intention to instate any conservation policy at all.

            The state officials apparently don't understand the most basic concepts of ecology, so they want to go back to an circa 1890 exterminate-all-predators policy.

            Guys, you are entitled to your opinions but don't fool yourself into thinking they are reasonable opinions. Science is quite clear on these things:

            -predators are necessary for healthy ecosystems.

            -hunters can play a role in a healthy ecosystems, however they do NOT replace predators.

            -The deer and elk populations were "out of control" for most of the 1900's, this was because there were no natural predators. Wolf populations cannot be "out of control" because if they were, dropping prey populations would limit their growth.

            None of the above facts are even remotely debated among scientists with even a basic understanding of ecology.

            Also, this "shoot shovel and shut up" notion is not a noble way to rise up against the oppressive government. It is an ignorant way to break the law and ignore scientific reality.


            • #7
              and for the record-

              I am FOR responsible wolf hunting seasons that allow the ecosystem to maintain a natural balance.

              I am AGAINST the kind of near-extermination hunting policies that have been suggested by Idaho and Wyoming.

              also, though in general I support a limited government, I recognize the right of the federal government to supersede the states on environmental issues. The environment belongs to all of us not just the people of any one state.


              • #8
                shane, those ranches were there before the wolves like let say 150yrs, theres a reason they shot them back then and that was to make a living I dont know how you want them to raise beef to sell when the wolves are killing more than they can sell. I said before you want back east then get your ass out here and take them home we are tirred of them and people who live 2000 miles away telling us that there is nothing wrong with are big game heards.


                • #9
                  the wolves were there millions of years ago, long before the farmers got on the boat from Europe.

                  Don't kid yourself into thinking that because these wolves were relocated from Canada that are somehow "alien". Nature does not recognize the national border and we exterminated almost all the wolves that were naturally living in the lower 48.


                  • #10
                    Hey I live in Alaska, where we literally have so many wolves that no one can agree on their numbers, they cant be some areas, they have decimated the local moose populations...for this reason, the state of AK resumed its aerial predator control, until very recently anyway...The dirty little secret is that wolves have ALWAYS roamed the greater yellowstone ecosystem...As a boy in the 70's, my grandpa and I had 2 wolf encounters on the beartooth plateau...Talk to the old ranchers, outfitters and hunters and they will tell you the same thing...


                    • #11
                      during the winter of 2007-08 the wolves were so hungry around here that the local dog population declined dramatically...


                      • #12
                        ken.mccloud: I appreciate your somewhat informed comments but do ask that you re-examine the plans offered up by Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming as well as the cause of Wyoming being singled out for rejection. Determine the differences of the plans and the very astute well thought out reasons for these variances. Also understand that one man's decision brought on this lawsuit on the part of the Wolf Coalition. State's rights versus Federal control has been proceeding and in debate since the beginning of this country. You are absolutely correct in that wolves have always been here as I previously stated in my reply to shane. Nevertheless the introduction had little to do with "balancing the ecosystem". Actually the best thing to do for the Yellowstone area is for all of us to clear out and the rest of you to never visit. Nature and the animals will take care of themselves. Certainly that scenario will never occur so we have to deal with it by keeping the wolves in acceptable numbers. Back before the introduction of the wolves I suggested that they fence off Yellowstone Park from the remainder of the world so the feds could run their own little ecosystem as they saw fit. Unfortunately they replied that the wolves would overtake all the other animals in population growth which would discourage the tourists when they became bored with seeing nothing but wolves. This sounds like looney tunes but then so did most of the meetings we attended when this idea was first brought forth. By the way the biologists and scientists that you speak to or hear from on TV are paid state and federal government employees who want to keep their jobs and have been told what to say. Do your own research and think about what you find. Again I appreciate the statements and interest from all of you on this subject that eventually have an impact on all hunters. Do you want the wolves in your hunting area?


                        • #13
                          To ken, shane did you ever stop and think why they got rid of them in the 1900's I bet they had a good reason and if they had thundersticks a million years ago they probly would have been shot then to. You guys back east think that this neater than sliced bread you come out west on vacation to take pictures of the wolves and wildlife around Yellowstone and Grand teton well I say this Hold on to those pictures of the other wildlife because the next you come all your goin to see are the devil dogs. By the way you still have'nt got your trucks out here to take some home with you have you?


                          • #14

                            I am going to apologize for my rudeness ahead of time but I feel quite strongly about this issue.

                            That is one of the most ignorant opinions I have ever heard. The logic of your argument boils down to:

                            "If they did it in the past then it must be a good idea."

                            Lets apply that logic to some other historical events. Hitler tried killing all the Jews in the past therefore killing all the Jews must be a good idea!?!? They used to own slaves in south therefore enslaving people is a good idea?!?! I don't think that your point holds up to any scrutiny at all.

                            The fact is that they killed wolves in the late 19th and early 20th centuries because they thought that predators were like pollution. Both predators and pollution killed game species therefore they both must be the enemy of nature.

                            We now know that this idea is the opposite of how nature works. Predators regulate prey populations to keep them from exploding to the point where they are susceptible to density driven disease and over-browsing. They also apply very specific kinds of selective pressure that drives the evolution of all species in an ecosystem. PREDATORS ARE ESSENTIAL TO NATURE, NOT THE ENEMY OF IT.

                            As for ranchers, first off, they are currently being compensated by the government for livestock lost to wolf predation. Secondly, wolves are not an un-manageable problem for ranchers. People have been raising livestock in the presence of predators for hundreds of thousands of years. Selective hunts, special fences and other technologies can cut down on the losses. Also, remember that a lot of domestic dog breeds were originally bred to protect livestock from predators. Why don't we bring back that practice?

                            It is entirely unreasonable to think that nature should bow before the will of the all-mighty ranchers. If wolves didn't kill livestock then storms, drought, disease and parasites would. Just because they are not accustomed to dealing with this particular problem does not mean it has no solution.

                            As for bringing the wolves back east, I have lived in the UP of Michigan where they are fairly common and I currently strongly support a movement to reintroduce them to the Adirondacks.


                            • #15
                              My opinions are not informed by government scientists worried about loosing their jobs. (though I'd believe that they were the only ones at those "town hall meetings" you are referring to)

                              My opinions are informed by professors (most of the Phd's) in biology and ecology. A lot of these people are hunters themselves. These people are tenured and can therefore speak freely without fear of being fired. Though my profession is engineering, I have take several classes in biology / ecology /environmental science field.

                              I am sorry to say it but, the arguments I am making are in no way controversial to people with even a basic understanding of ecology. In fact many people may do a poor job explaining these points because they think of them as so obvious they are self-evident.

                              It all boils down to the fact that predators are an essential part of nature. So either you have to support predator restoration or be against the natural environment.

                              I would think this would be an obvious choice to any outdoorsmen/women.




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