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Need advice on choice of 20 gauge semi auto

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  • #16
    The ring assembly, or, if you prefer, friction brake rings, have to be properly aligned on the magazine tube to make the weapon fire properly , without cracking the rather fragile forearm assembly. And, to function with light loads. Recoil ring assembly, friction ring assembly, is just a matter of terms and semantics, honk the phony. I never had to ask advice on the assembly of this, on any of the five Auto 5s I have owned, or any of the three I currently own. All of the parts you have named could be disassembled and replaced by any competent moron, which, by your postings, you have proved to be. Moron, that is, not exactly competent.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by crm3006 View Post
      The ring assembly, or, if you prefer, friction brake rings, have to be properly aligned on the magazine tube to make the weapon fire properly , without cracking the rather fragile forearm assembly. And, to function with light loads. Recoil ring assembly, friction ring assembly, is just a matter of terms and semantics, honk the phony. I never had to ask advice on the assembly of this, on any of the five Auto 5s I have owned, or any of the three I currently own. All of the parts you have named could be disassembled and replaced by any competent moron, which, by your postings, you have proved to be. Moron, that is, not exactly competent.
      And what pray tell is an A5 "forearm assembly"? Again, the forearm comes from the factory as one piece of wood. No assembly required. But you should know that. You own three of them. Yeah, right. You need to polish your Google skills. Several sites have schematics. Try Midwest Gun Supply. And just how do you propose removing the end of magazine tube broke off inside the receiver? Come on, you've done this a hundred times, right? What tool do you use to install the new magazine tube? And what adjustment must be made to the gun after the magazine tube has been replaced? What adjustment is needed to make a Magnum A5 cycle 1 oz 1200 fps trap loads? Get your google fingers a walking, troll.
      Last edited by Ontario Honker Hunter; 08-14-2020, 04:00 AM.

      Comment


      • #18
        honk, honk, honk! Your ignorance shines like a diamond in a goat's a$$. "the forearm comes from the factory as one piece of wood. No assembly required."
        The forearm, or, forearm assembly, has a small metal ring on the forward end, with a tiny metal indent which, when the retaining nut is screwed down onto the magazine tube under the barrel, keeps the nut from backing off. (I don't know why I am explaining all this to the mighty honk, who allegedly knows everything!)
        "And just how do you propose removing the end of magazine tube broke off inside the receiver? Come on, you've done this a hundred times, right?"
        Actually, no, honk the phony. I have never had to remove the end of a broken magazine tube, because I have never incorrectly assembled an Auto 5 and broken a magazine tube. I can only imagine the fat fingered and fat headed ignoramus it would take to break one off inside the receiver. From your written posts, I can only take for granted that you are as ignorant of shotguns, specifically the Browning Auto 5, as you are everything else you presume to pontificate on. Also, that you are a piss-poor amateur gunsmith.

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        • #19
          [QUOTE=crm3006;n742058]honk, honk, honk! Your ignorance shines like a diamond in a goat's a$$. "the forearm comes from the factory as one piece of wood. No assembly required."
          The forearm, or, forearm assembly, has a small metal ring on the forward end, with a tiny metal indent which, when the retaining nut is screwed down onto the magazine tube under the barrel, keeps the nut from backing off. (I don't know why I am explaining all this to the mighty honk, who allegedly knows everything!)
          "And just how do you propose removing the end of magazine tube broke off inside the receiver? Come on, you've done this a hundred times, right?"
          Har, har, har! Again, you should have taken my advice and googled a schematic before spouting your lack of knowledge. The magazine cap retaining pin/spring is integral to the fore arm. No assembly required. In fact, the part is not available separately ... unfortunately. The aftermarket plastic stock set I picked up for this gun only had a cast nubbin at the top to hold the cap in place. After a half dozen cleanings the nubbin wore off (surprise, surprise!) and cap would back out during shooting. Because no one sells, or ever did sell, a replacement pin/spring assembly, I had to remove the old one from the former broken walnut fore end and put it in the plastic one. Removing it without wrecking it was no mean feat. Then I had to drill the right size hole in the right place in new fore arm. That pin assembly is quite fragile. Only get one shot at it. Also, the plastic fore end did not fit over the barrel spring and required significant modification. Try sanding that crap! Hard as a rock and statically charged dust balls up the work. Took a couple days and many ibuprofen for arthritic hands!

          You know from following my posts that my 1976 A5 Magnum Twelve was purchased six years ago. It obviously had previous owners. You would also know that before my acquiring it had been cobbled together from pieces of different guns. The stock was from a Belgian Light Twelve trap gun (hard FN buttplate and wrong comb drop for field gun). The fore end with crossbolt was from a later model Miroku magnum. The magazine tube had apparently been replaced with a used one that had locking screw hole in a different/wrong place for that receiver. Result was the tube eventually split and broke at the screw hole. Most recently, the gun was plagued with misfires and broken firing pins. The local gunsmith and I both took the gun completely apart several times and could find no reason for it. Finally, I watched the hammer strike the firing pin through the receiver's bolt handle slot. Then I compared it to what was going on inside my Light Twelve when it was fired. Bingo! The magnum's hammer struck the breech block at an angle and not flush with face of firing pin. It's why the face of hammer was gouged and pins kept breaking. Removed hammers from both guns and compared them. They were the same. But should they be? Turns out no. Browning used the same breech block in both guns but the magnum one locks into the barrel 1/4" further ahead because magnum receiver is 1/4" longer to accommodate 3" magnum shells. Consequently the Light Twelve hammer which is fixed to the longer 3" receiver was striking at a sharp angle causing pins to break or not hit the primers with enough force to detonate. Sure enough I looked at Midwest's parts catalogue and the 3" hammers are quite different. Since it is all but impossible to legally ship any gun parts out of US and the border lockdown keeps me from driving across to pick them up, I had to improvise a temporary solution. Using a file I removed enough of the top half of hammer face so that it now strikes the pin and breech squarely enough to get consistent firing. It appears there is enough metal left in the hammer so its strength isn't compromised (more than 500 rounds so far with no problems). Will keep an eye on it for signs of stress. I'll get original equipment as soon as I can. So some other wannabe gunsmith before me stuck the wrong hammer, or more probably the entire trigger assembly, from a Light Twelve in this Magnum Twelve. Everything else in trigger assembly is the same in both guns but hammer. Even the old timer local gunsmith was not aware they had different hammers.

          Now let's see ... I can diagnose and fix a problem that baffled the gunsmith ... but I don't know how to arrange the friction brake and rings ... even though Browning conveniently glues an instruction diagram inside each fore end. Yeah, right.

          I'm still waiting for your answer re adjusting a Magnum Twelve for light trap loads.

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          • #20
            From honk the phony- " even though Browning conveniently glues an instruction diagram inside each fore end. Yeah, right.

            I'm still waiting for your answer re adjusting a Magnum Twelve for light trap loads.


            honk the phony, I don't have the time to waste reading all of your overlong and usually stupid posts, but from what I skimmed, you went and bought a cobbled together piece of crap, and then had to either work on it or probably pay a real gunsmith to put it into working order. Tough cookies, caveat emptor. Could be you learned from it.
            My Browning Magnum 12 was purchased new from the PX in Ft. Benning, GA, sometime after April, 1971. I never wanted to or needed to adjust for light trap loads, as I usually shot heavy duck or hi-brass dove loads. Sometime in early 1972, a trap range opened in my home town, and I sold the Magnum for enough to purchase a left handed Remington 1100, which was the going trap gun of that time. Since I had bought the Browning at PX price, I made some money on the deal, even after buying the 1100, which was more suitable for my purpose. Previously, for a few weeks, I shot trap with a modified choked 16 gauge Auto 5.
            Of the three Auto 5s I currently own, not one has the paper in the fore end showing the friction ring assembly, but what they do have, honk the phony, is matching serial numbers throughout. Mine are not cobbled together pieces of crap, assembled to sucker in the unwary idiot who knows not how to buy a used firearm.

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            • #21
              Aaaaaaaand...there goes Derek.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by crm3006 View Post
                From honk the phony- " even though Browning conveniently glues an instruction diagram inside each fore end. Yeah, right.

                I'm still waiting for your answer re adjusting a Magnum Twelve for light trap loads.


                honk the phony, I don't have the time to waste reading all of your overlong and usually stupid posts, but from what I skimmed, you went and bought a cobbled together piece of crap, and then had to either work on it or probably pay a real gunsmith to put it into working order. Tough cookies, caveat emptor. Could be you learned from it.
                My Browning Magnum 12 was purchased new from the PX in Ft. Benning, GA, sometime after April, 1971. I never wanted to or needed to adjust for light trap loads, as I usually shot heavy duck or hi-brass dove loads. Sometime in early 1972, a trap range opened in my home town, and I sold the Magnum for enough to purchase a left handed Remington 1100, which was the going trap gun of that time. Since I had bought the Browning at PX price, I made some money on the deal, even after buying the 1100, which was more suitable for my purpose. Previously, for a few weeks, I shot trap with a modified choked 16 gauge Auto 5.
                Of the three Auto 5s I currently own, not one has the paper in the fore end showing the friction ring assembly, but what they do have, honk the phony, is matching serial numbers throughout. Mine are not cobbled together pieces of crap, assembled to sucker in the unwary idiot who knows not how to buy a used firearm.
                Crm the teen troll: I knew this gun was pieced together when I bought it. Pretty obvious if it has an FN buttplate and no recoil pad on a gun with Miroku 3" barrel. I also know I can fix anything so a Frankengun didn't concern me. I actually enjoyed the challenge. No repairs by local gunsmith. He's in very poor health and leaving anything with him means you won't see it again for a year or more. I took the gun over one afternoon before the lockdown and we popped it apart together (after I'd already had it apart countless times). He had no answer for misfire issues. I solved that myself.

                If you knew anything about Browning A5s, and clearly you don't, you'd know that there is no such thing as "matching serial numbers throughout." You're thinking military issue 1911 sidearms. A5 has one and only one serial number stamped to bottom of the receiver. In fact, I'm not sure I have ever seen a commercially made shotgun with more than one number on it. I'm sure I haven't. So much for your shotgun expertise. Har, har.

                The Miroku guns apparently do not have instructions glued inside of fore end. However, your 1971 FN gun did. I know that because my Light Twelve is also a 1971 model that I bought at the PX in Seoul, Korea in 1972. It has the paper diagram inside the fore end. Or what's left of it. Barrel recoil spring and the lubricating oil for it takes a toll on the paper.

                A tip for you re Browning's instructions for light loads as found in fore end and owner's manual (which I have for my Light Twelve bought new). The manual says for light loads drop the steel compression ring to bottom of barrel spring next to receiver. However, that can result in friction brake getting trapped between the barrel spring and magazine tube causing cycling issues. Instead, simply flip the steel ring over so beveled side is against the spring and flat side against the blunt edge of friction brake. The friction effect is the same but no problems with occasional entrapment of the brake against the tube (causing too much friction and cycle failure). The steel compressing ring fits tighter than the barrel spring against the magazine tube and prevents brake from binding against spring (and also gouging the tube).

                Now for the Magnum Twelve and trap loads. The Miroku magnums, and possibly late FN models, used a double friction brake setup (earlier FN magnums had a dual barrel spring setup). The instructions from Browning say remove one friction brake and two steel rings for light loads. Doesn't work for anything less than 1 1/8 oz and 1250 fps. Not consistently anyway. And for some brands (particularly Federal blue box) the gun will almost never cycle anything meant for the range. I tried several different creative combinations of rings and brakes with unreliable results. The problem is the magnum barrel springs are simply too stiff for light trap loads. Most guys just give up and get rid of the guns. Some fools remove the brakes altogether which, as you indicated, will eventually pound the fore end to pieces. I'm sure my gun's previous owner did it as the fore end was well on it's way out when I bought it. No matter. I intended to switch to plastic for field hunting anyway (my 870 goose gun had been dressed in black for years). The solution is to make the Magnum Twelve into a Light Twelve for range shooting. I ordered an extra Light Twelve barrel spring, friction brake, and steel compression ring. Then I had a local machinist make an adapter sleeve to take up the difference in length between longer Magnum and shorter Light Twelve barrel springs. I stack the spacer, Light Twelve barrel spring and brake/ring on the magazine tube, slip on fore end, cinch down magazine cap, and I have a Magnum Twelve that cycles like a Light Twelve. With the Light Twelve's lighter barrel spring it handles a wide range of range loads. Flawlessly! When goose season rolls around, I switch back to the magnum spring and brake setup.

                Still maintain I don't know how to arrange the friction assembly in an A5? Pfft!
                Last edited by Ontario Honker Hunter; 08-14-2020, 06:43 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  From honk the know nothing phony "Still maintain I don't know how to arrange the friction assembly in an A5? Pfft!"

                  Once again, honk the phony proves his ignorance about the Auto 5. The Browning Auto 5 has a complete serial number in four places. Under the loading gate, on the barrel ring, on the forend assembly, pressed into the wood, and on the butt stock. That is, IF the gun is original, and not a cobbled together piece of junk. Other miscellaneous minor parts will have the last two digits of the serial number stamped on them.

                  "you'd know that there is no such thing as "matching serial numbers throughout." You're thinking military issue 1911 sidearms. A5 has one and only one serial number"

                  Again, bullsquat, honk the phony. I know some 1911A1s do have matching serial numbers, but not all. By the way, are you not the ignoramus that tried to tell us that the 1911A1 and the Browning M35 (High Power) had the same size hand grip, a few years back?

                  And, honk the phony, I have handled a few Auto 5s. I will include pictures, just this once, so you can drool with envy. L to R, they are a 1948 sixteen gauge, 1953 twelve gauge, and 1952 12 gauge with extra barrel and Cutts Compensator. Four different chokes.
                  Click image for larger version

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Amflyer View Post
                    Aaaaaaaand...there goes Derek.
                    Yeah. Too bad. Too bad this site doesn't have a moderator to flush BS artists like that noncontributory crm troll. He never gives up making a fool of himself and then gets abusive when caught (e.g. his silly QAnon posts) Like that's going to make a difference? Okay, I admit it is perhaps too much fun poking holes in his lies. Maybe I need some more hobbies?

                    I should have been in Africa yesterday. Damned coronavirus! Bet you're missing it too.
                    Last edited by Ontario Honker Hunter; 08-14-2020, 07:25 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      What? Exposed your ignorance about Auto 5s, did I, little man? Gonna pout, and hold your breath 'til you turn blue?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by crm3006 View Post
                        What? Exposed your ignorance about Auto 5s, did I, little man? Gonna pout, and hold your breath 'til you turn blue?
                        Nope. Busy dealing with a bear skull and big whitetail euro that is way overdue getting back to the clients.

                        This is going to take a while and probably several posts. There is only one serial number on the A-5s in my possession. On the receiver. You claim another is stamped "under the loading gate." Presumably that would be what Browning calls the carrier assembly. There is no number anywhere on any surface of either piece of the carrier. See below images.

                        Click image for larger version  Name:	Carrier 1.JPG Views:	3 Size:	102.9 KB ID:	742103
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                        Click image for larger version  Name:	carrier 4.JPG Views:	3 Size:	93.8 KB ID:	742106
                        So much for BS #1. You also claim the serial number is pressed into the wood of fore end and butt stock. Here is the butt stock and fore end of my Light Twelve bought new in Korea in 1972. There are no numbers impressed anywhere. There is a single #2 ink stamped at top inside of fore end. But there is not a number two anywhere in the serial number. Presumably it has something to do with style of stock or grade of wood.
                        Click image for larger version  Name:	Fore end 1.JPG Views:	3 Size:	106.0 KB ID:	742107
                        To be continued ... only five image attachments allowed per post.
                        Last edited by Ontario Honker Hunter; 08-14-2020, 11:09 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Okay, here's the second image of fore end. Note the instructions glued inside.
                          Click image for larger version  Name:	Fore end 2.JPG Views:	0 Size:	92.1 KB ID:	742112
                          That clears up your BS #2 re fore end. Anything on the stock? Nope.
                          Click image for larger version  Name:	butt stock 1.JPG Views:	0 Size:	119.0 KB ID:	742113
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                          So much for BS #3. No numbers anywhere on the butt stock.
                          To be continued: re the barrel ring and your gun show treasures.
                          Last edited by Ontario Honker Hunter; 08-15-2020, 03:36 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            "... I should have been in Africa yesterday. Damned coronavirus! ..."
                            Last edited by Ontario Honker Hunter; Today, 06:25 PM.

                            I wish you were in Africa, too!
                            🐘🦏🦒🦓🐆🦛🐪🐊
                            Damn coronavirus scare!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              And finally, the barrel ring. Any numbers there? Nope.
                              Click image for larger version  Name:	Barrel ring 1.JPG Views:	0 Size:	105.0 KB ID:	742123
                              Click image for larger version  Name:	barrel ring 2.JPG Views:	0 Size:	113.0 KB ID:	742124
                              Any other place you think might have hidden serial numbers? I do have photos of the trigger assembly, tang, and action spring housing. Nothing there either.

                              As to your gunshow treasures: No they don't leave me drooling. First, those guns are all likely too old to have the speed load feature patented by Val Browning in 1952. The old models before speed load required holding in the bolt release button to release the carrier for putting shells in the magazine. The breech has to be closed to load. Then when the magazine is loaded, the bolt is shucked to put one in the chamber. Then the last shell can be loaded into magazine ... after pressing the bolt release button ... again. Ugh! For my 1970s guns with speed load I simply push up the carrier with a shell with open chamber and shell automatically gets loaded ready to fire. Also I have absolutely no interest in a shotgun with a barrel booger stuck on the end. And looking at all the boogered barrels and cheap A5s with them up on line, I'd say few other people are interested in them either. You're welcome to blow your ears out with that Cutts Compensator. Not my idea of fun! Also not enjoyable for the other guys on the trap line! The Polychoke on the left gun will throw pretty much one pattern ... no matter what's dialed in. They're a joke. And what would I want with an A5 that's had the barrel chopped off to 18"? That's criminal. I see these old butchered A-5s on the shelf or on line all the time. Even the fancy grade trap models with Compensators don't bring much of a price for a top of the line gun (often they're sold just for parts, particularly the wood ... no one wants the barrels!). If any of your guns had engraving (unlikely given their age) I would expect maybe $300 if in good shape. If they had an unaltered original barrel in anything but full choke, maybe as much as $500. But that would have to be a pristine gun. Later models with auto load bring a bit more. The problem with A-5s is there are so many of them still out there. Most have fixed full choke. Gun store shelves always have a couple of those it seems (most shops won't even take a gun with Compensator). What do you do with a fixed full choke but shoot trap? They don't move fast ... but the ugly ones with barrel boogers move a lot slower. Find an A-5 with choke tubes ... well that's worth something. A Miroku magnum barrel in good shape with choke tubes would probably be worth more than all your guns put together. $800 is not unusual.
                              Last edited by Ontario Honker Hunter; 08-14-2020, 11:19 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Well, ol' honk the phony, not surprised your cobbled together piece of junk doesn't have the right Browning serial numbers, but mine do, and I will be happy with what I've got. As to your evaluation and pricing, that is also a load of horse monyocky. All of my guns have the standard Browning engraving on them, and they aren't built for show, they are built to shoot. Your Jap barrel is another add-on, that I would not have, as all of mine are genuine Belgian made. Always patting yourself on the back, honkster. Doesn't your arm ever get tired?

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