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  • Ontario Honker Hunter
    replied
    "Since you consider your experience so worthy I would think you could describe your analogies more clearly without having someone ask question because what you wrote didn't add up.....
    You seem to "always" talk about not being able to tell when or where a bird will flush ( or direction ) using flushers. Since you have used labs primarily "I guess" we should assume this is what happens when you hunt your dogs yet you speak a lot about this "connection" between man & dog that is so important.
    What you describe doesn't happen to me very often and I know what the connection is between me and my dogs so your analogy doesn't add up."

    Hmm. No one else seems to be confused about my "analogies". Sorry, but I don't recall ever relating any certainty about "when or where a bird will flush (or direction) using flushers." Quite the opposite. I believe I have said many times on here that it's a tossup for enjoyment between not knowing exactly when/where a birdy flusher will kick up the target and the joy of watching a good pointer nail one down for an easy walk up. The latter is definitely less challenging/exciting for the shooter (which in my book = less fun) but watching a good pointer work can certainly be rewarding ... if they work close. I don't see much enjoyment in watching a dog work a bird a half mile away. Opal kinda provided the best of both worlds. She was mostly the the close working flushing Lab but occasionally a pheasant or Hun would hold tight till she could see it. Then she'd go on point. Rock solid too. Couldn't get her to flush the bird. But if it blinked she'd push it up instantly. Ellie is something of an enigma. Hunt her with the other dogs and she is totally a flusher (one exception comes to mind when she pointed and they were all hunting). I had to be really careful or she'd bust Puppy's points every chance. Took some stern work before she'd come in for the walk up. And it has to be a "walk up." If I try to run or even quick step, Ellie will bolt and bust the bird. She knows Puppy has one and that drives her crazy. "I wanna play too!" But work Ellie alone or with the other dogs pulled in, and she becomes a dedicated pointing dog. Very stealthy. She will point hot, not just by sight. I suppose I could try harder to work the kinks out of her honouring Puppy's points but I'm hesitant to fiddle much with a really exceptional situation. Eventually Ellie will probably catch on. For now I'm okay with things the way they are. Better to work them individually anyway. Puppy is getting older and a break now and then is good for her. Too often I work the dogs too much the first week in Montana and have to nurse sore pads. Rotation is better for them ... but they will disagree.

    I can't even guess what analogy you are referring to. You lost me about half way through that paragraph.

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  • springerman3
    replied
    Originally posted by Ontario Honker Hunter View Post

    I strongly suspect that "back in the day" when he could see better, George shot high gun at the range like everyone else. Though he is a retired university prof, he's not very chatty. More of a researcher I gather from what little he has talked about it.

    My schlera (eyeball) is so thin that in places the eye surgeon could even see through it during surgery (google "blue eye"). During first left eye surgery when attempting to place the silicone buckle around eyeball to squeeze it into egg shape, the eye surgeon tore a hole in the schlera, it was so thin. Repairing both the schlera and retina was quite a chore. The buckle subsequently caused two more tears and detachments within six months. The third time (a dangerous lower quadrant detachment) he relocated the buckle during surgery but warned it probably wouldn't work. Only 15% probability of not losing sight in that eye. Finally got lucky. I can still see with that eye, but only very poorly. Removing the floaters in the other "good eye" (also caused from retina tears) would require puncturing the eyeball with a needle and sucking them out. I would love to get rid of them but surgeon says no one will touch that fragile good eye unless they absolutely have to. In the event of a detachment (which was thought to be inevitable fifteen years ago), the floaters will be removed during vitrectomy. I would rather put up with floaters in my "good eye" than risk another series of calamities like we had back in 2004.

    So you shot 22 grouse in a row without missing? Well, that is some feat! Ten years ago I could pound up and down mountains and valleys with ease. Though I'm still fairly fit, age is taking its toll. Last year I did switch to the Light Twelve towards the end of the season in Montana. Requires switching the stocks as the wood on it (which came off the Miroku Magnum Twelve but was not original to that gun - it has Belgian FN butt plate) is obviously a trap stock with a rise of about 3/4" at the heel above factory. I can't hit anything from low gun with that wood (but my daughter does fairly well with it at trap). Fortunately, switching stocks is easy on A-5s and doesn't require pulling recoil pads. But I simply didn't want to be bothered changing guns. Also, I swing a heavier gun much better. Most people do.

    I don't miss many shots in the field even when exhausted (though I'm obviously not the grand expert you claim to be). But I didn't get many shots in Montana the last couple of years, exhausted or not. I recall at one point three consecutive days of hard hunting last fall, all day long, without a shot. In six weeks I bagged 25 birds and probably had the best season of anyone in the state (on public land anyway). Very, very tough hunting. Oh, and the dogs weren't disappointed. They have fun even if they don't get to retrieve anything. And I don't have to clean birds either. My dogs are excellent but when there's so few birds, there's not a lot can be expected. Even the hens take off running or they're in the air sixty yards away before we can get remotely close. The pheasants were so jumpy at the bird refuge that it was pretty much hopeless. I swear they were wearing long range radar. Hard to believe they could hear us that far away. Good news is it compelled me to look for a new place to hunt (I usually work the refuge on the way west to meet my brother with the trailer and then on the way home). I found a fabulous new huge chunk of publicly accessible land about sixty miles away that apparently no one hunts (I think the long VERY rough dusty road deters most folks). Not many birds (hard to tell since the cover for them was almost endless) but the few we did find were dumb as a stump and almost all were roosters. They held beautifully for Ellie. It was a blast. What pheasant hunting should be ... FINALLY. I missed one easy shot while hunting a dried slough the second day. It happens. Don't think I missed another shot even though the wind was cold and fairly gusty two out of three days. It took some work but got my two birds every day (I was on the way home and only had two left to fill possession so I was eating two every night at the motel).

    Springerman, you read a lot between the lines that isn't there. Or you make assumptions based on bits and pieces pulled out of context. You don't know George, you've never seen me or my dogs hunt, you've never seen where I hunt, and you've never seen me (or my daughter) shoot at the range. Perhaps wait till you've had some personal direct contact before making grandiose assumptions.

    I was hoping you would catch that I was referring to pheasants vs grouse on the birds in a row.....as well I said 22 birds from a box of shells not 22 in a row.
    Hard to imagine anyone being good enough to hit 15 - 18 grouse in a row unless they were shooting them off a limb or on the ground while walking a trail using a 22 rifle.
    Clem and I did have two very good 3 day grouse hunts one year, many years ago.
    10 for 18 ( all flying, 7 head shot ) and 9 for 14 ( all flying, 5 head shot ) ! I put in the "all flying" so you wouldn't be confused πŸ˜‹
    In the 8 months before those hunts I had gotten my first pair of prescription shooting glasses, had the mod barrel opened to skeet on the SKB 100 I was using ( now skeet/IC vs IC/mod ), had custom fitted stock made for the gun and a professional shooting lesson.
    The combination of all those things allowed me to be a much b​​​​etter shot in the grouse woods.
    The other thing ( more important ? ) is those were the best shots I have ever got on multiple days of grouse hunting. I could clearly see the head on almost every bird and the gun almost always came up just ahead of the beak.
    Bang and down they went, got to the point where Clem would hold position to hear the wings beating in the leaves ( head shot birds do that no matter what species ) so he would know where the bird was !! Closest thing to heaven on earth a hunter could have happen far as I am concerned πŸ˜€
    I have noticed before there Honk where your words don't quite make sense and when questioned about that some of the story seems to change.... fairly often.
    The mount and swing to a stationary object would be a prime example !
    Funny I seem to have noticed that you don't hesitate to offer shooting advice when someone asks a question about that. Lots of diagnosis about what they are doing wrong when you don't even know if they are giving an accurate description of what the "problem" is.....
    Since you consider your experience so worthy I would think you could describe your analogies more clearly without having someone ask question because what you wrote didn't add up.....
    You seem to "always" talk about not being able to tell when or where a bird will flush ( or direction ) using flushers. Since you have used labs primarily "I guess" we should assume this is what happens when you hunt your dogs yet you speak a lot about this "connection" between man & dog that is so important.
    What you describe doesn't happen to me very often and I know what the connection is between me and my dogs so your analogy doesn't add up.

    These are not grandiose assumptions as quite often there is a question mark at the end of my sentence. If I ask a question because what you typed didn't make sense and then the answer is contrary to the first piece of info given, what are folks supposed to think.
    Does this guy really know what he is talking about is what pops into my mind.......so I ask 😏

    Leave a comment:


  • CD2
    replied
    George doesn't talk because he can't get a word in edgewise.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ontario Honker Hunter
    replied
    Originally posted by springerman3 View Post

    First off old George may not shoot well now but as you say he was probably pretty good back in the day. Based on that experience it may be fruitful for you to speak with him and use any info he may wish to share. You seem to be quite serious about how your experience is so impressive, could it be there might be someone with more......show the guy some respect !
    There is a procedure that will take care of those floaters, won't your health care allow you to have that operation ?
    I have been known to spend 4 to 6 hours in the grouse woods ( not trail walking ) where the cover can be much tougher to walk and shoot through. After doing that for several days, pheasants look like big balloons that are hardly moving.
    For most of the time over Gabe & Clem ( a 25 year period ) I would average 15 to 18 kills in a row to start the season. My best was 22 birds from a box of shells when Clem was 5 or 6 years old.
    Does this mean I am a "hot shot" ? The thing was I had two very good dogs with excellent noses and they understood hunting in range. When they turned and surged forward to flush, using my many years of experience it was very possible to anticipate which direction the bird would fly.
    The shots were generally so easy it was difficult to miss πŸ˜€
    As an upland bird hunter is this not what one would "aspire" for ?
    I have heard you comment before how difficult it is to lift and shoot your long heavy gun on your long and arduous hunts. Wouldn't it be better to get a lighter shotgun ( still with some weight forward ) to solve this issue ? If hunting hard all day ( or trying to ) leads to that much fatigue maybe a new perspective should be considered ?
    Not being able to complete your part of that task some would say is not showing respect for the dog.
    Since you have difficulty describing the move mount shoot method and understanding the nuances of it I will "respectfully" doubt this is the system you use.
    Or at best you are not using it to its full advantage ( which is making sure the muzzle is in front of the bird when the trigger is pulled ) !
    I strongly suspect that "back in the day" when he could see better, George shot high gun at the range like everyone else. Though he is a retired university prof, he's not very chatty. More of a researcher I gather from what little he has talked about it.

    My schlera (eyeball) is so thin that in places the eye surgeon could even see through it during surgery (google "blue eye"). During first left eye surgery when attempting to place the silicone buckle around eyeball to squeeze it into egg shape, the eye surgeon tore a hole in the schlera, it was so thin. Repairing both the schlera and retina was quite a chore. The buckle subsequently caused two more tears and detachments within six months. The third time (a dangerous lower quadrant detachment) he relocated the buckle during surgery but warned it probably wouldn't work. Only 15% probability of not losing sight in that eye. Finally got lucky. I can still see with that eye, but only very poorly. Removing the floaters in the other "good eye" (also caused from retina tears) would require puncturing the eyeball with a needle and sucking them out. I would love to get rid of them but surgeon says no one will touch that fragile good eye unless they absolutely have to. In the event of a detachment (which was thought to be inevitable fifteen years ago), the floaters will be removed during vitrectomy. I would rather put up with floaters in my "good eye" than risk another series of calamities like we had back in 2004.

    So you shot 22 grouse in a row without missing? Well, that is some feat! Ten years ago I could pound up and down mountains and valleys with ease. Though I'm still fairly fit, age is taking its toll. Last year I did switch to the Light Twelve towards the end of the season in Montana. Requires switching the stocks as the wood on it (which came off the Miroku Magnum Twelve but was not original to that gun - it has Belgian FN butt plate) is obviously a trap stock with a rise of about 3/4" at the heel above factory. I can't hit anything from low gun with that wood (but my daughter does fairly well with it at trap). Fortunately, switching stocks is easy on A-5s and doesn't require pulling recoil pads. But I simply didn't want to be bothered changing guns. Also, I swing a heavier gun much better. Most people do.

    I don't miss many shots in the field even when exhausted (though I'm obviously not the grand expert you claim to be). But I didn't get many shots in Montana the last couple of years, exhausted or not. I recall at one point three consecutive days of hard hunting last fall, all day long, without a shot. In six weeks I bagged 25 birds and probably had the best season of anyone in the state (on public land anyway). Very, very tough hunting. Oh, and the dogs weren't disappointed. They have fun even if they don't get to retrieve anything. And I don't have to clean birds either. My dogs are excellent but when there's so few birds, there's not a lot can be expected. Even the hens take off running or they're in the air sixty yards away before we can get remotely close. The pheasants were so jumpy at the bird refuge that it was pretty much hopeless. I swear they were wearing long range radar. Hard to believe they could hear us that far away. Good news is it compelled me to look for a new place to hunt (I usually work the refuge on the way west to meet my brother with the trailer and then on the way home). I found a fabulous new huge chunk of publicly accessible land about sixty miles away that apparently no one hunts (I think the long VERY rough dusty road deters most folks). Not many birds (hard to tell since the cover for them was almost endless) but the few we did find were dumb as a stump and almost all were roosters. They held beautifully for Ellie. It was a blast. What pheasant hunting should be ... FINALLY. I missed one easy shot while hunting a dried slough the second day. It happens. Don't think I missed another shot even though the wind was cold and fairly gusty two out of three days. It took some work but got my two birds every day (I was on the way home and only had two left to fill possession so I was eating two every night at the motel).

    Springerman, you read a lot between the lines that isn't there. Or you make assumptions based on bits and pieces pulled out of context. You don't know George, you've never seen me or my dogs hunt, you've never seen where I hunt, and you've never seen me (or my daughter) shoot at the range. Perhaps wait till you've had some personal direct contact before making grandiose assumptions.
    Last edited by Ontario Honker Hunter; 07-25-2019, 12:57 PM.

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  • Ontario Honker Hunter
    replied
    Originally posted by CD2 View Post
    I shot a couple of Superposed that had Morgan? adj pads on em.
    Think my buds 3200 has some adj pad on it.
    I checked out the Morgan pads. A few guys at the trap club have them. They only allow for adjusting the height of comb but not the cant or LOP. I require serious LOP adjustment. An extra inch beyond factory LOP. Cant seems okay as factory stocks are usually set up for right hand shooter (which I am). Graco can be adjusted for cant, comb height, and LOP. But may require drilling out some wood in the stock.

    Leave a comment:


  • springerman3
    replied
    Originally posted by Ontario Honker Hunter View Post

    Obviously practising at a stationary target on the ceiling is not the same as shooting at a pulled target on the range. The target is not moving. The objective of the in home practice is 1) to ensure I naturally close left eye as the gun comes up (my left eye is screwed up - shooting with both eyes open puts the pattern high and to the right) and 2) to practice ensuring the gun is naturally positioned in proper mount.

    George certainly does not shoot better than me. I'm sure at some point in his life he might have been more competitive but it's a struggle for him to get half the targets now. He simply cannot see them (and usually doesn't even shoot). George shoots low gun because he has to. Like me, he has failing vision. I don't see that he moves, mounts, swings, shoots, etc., etc. any better or differently than I do when I shoot low gun.

    Would I ever have changed from high gun at the range if I hadn't had the vision problems handicapping me at the flurry shoot leading me to try something else? Probably not. But just imagine how much better I would be shooting low gun if I was 20/20 in both eyes and no floaters fogging my shooting eye's vision. I probably would never have figured it out. Adversity is the mother of invention ... and also improvement.

    Come hunting with me in Montana this year. Show me what a hot shot you are hitting pheasants in the head every time. After putting in ten miles on the hoof and a bird flushes in a thirty mile/hr wind, we'll see if you can even get the gun to your shoulder in time to get a shot, let alone worry about hitting the bird in the head. Five years ago I killed the first dozen birds before missing a shot. The year before it was first eleven without missing a shot. Those days are gone! I'm actually a better shot now (with much better eyesight) ... if I'm reasonably fresh. But there is no hope of staying "reasonably fresh" if there's no birds. Last year old Opal got me the only daily limit in the last two seasons. That's six weeks or more per year hunting almost daily. The piece of property Opal and I hunted that day is just under four miles in length. I hunted it end to end and then back to the middle, including several side trips up adjacent coulees. That was a relatively easy day!
    First off old George may not shoot well now but as you say he was probably pretty good back in the day. Based on that experience it may be fruitful for you to speak with him and use any info he may wish to share. You seem to be quite serious about how your experience is so impressive, could it be there might be someone with more......show the guy some respect !
    There is a procedure that will take care of those floaters, won't your health care allow you to have that operation ?
    I have been known to spend 4 to 6 hours in the grouse woods ( not trail walking ) where the cover can be much tougher to walk and shoot through. After doing that for several days, pheasants look like big balloons that are hardly moving.
    For most of the time over Gabe & Clem ( a 25 year period ) I would average 15 to 18 kills in a row to start the season. My best was 22 birds from a box of shells when Clem was 5 or 6 years old.
    Does this mean I am a "hot shot" ? The thing was I had two very good dogs with excellent noses and they understood hunting in range. When they turned and surged forward to flush, using my many years of experience it was very possible to anticipate which direction the bird would fly.
    The shots were generally so easy it was difficult to miss πŸ˜€
    As an upland bird hunter is this not what one would "aspire" for ?
    I have heard you comment before how difficult it is to lift and shoot your long heavy gun on your long and arduous hunts. Wouldn't it be better to get a lighter shotgun ( still with some weight forward ) to solve this issue ? If hunting hard all day ( or trying to ) leads to that much fatigue maybe a new perspective should be considered ?
    Not being able to complete your part of that task some would say is not showing respect for the dog.
    Since you have difficulty describing the move mount shoot method and understanding the nuances of it I will "respectfully" doubt this is the system you use.
    Or at best you are not using it to its full advantage ( which is making sure the muzzle is in front of the bird when the trigger is pulled ) !

    Leave a comment:


  • CD2
    replied
    I shot a couple of Superposed that had Morgan? adj pads on em.
    Think my buds 3200 has some adj pad on it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ontario Honker Hunter
    replied
    Originally posted by CD2 View Post
    Liberals and dog chit, neither allowed in my yard.

    My Citori Magnum hit too high for me, nice older fixed choke gun. Bummer.
    Went back to 1100.

    Might look for a bbl and run the old man's 1100 Trap if drawn for dove.
    Steel in a Mod works OK.
    Like a heavier gun. My standard model w synth stock and 26" Imp Cyl was just a bit too light.
    I also prefer to shoot flat. Both the Magnum A-5 (wearing synthetic) and this Citori shoot higher than I prefer. I take care of that with slip-on recoil pad to lengthen LOP. In winter when I'm layered up I'll shoot without the slip-on. The Browning factory recoil pad on the Citori is dried up, hard, and slippery. Accidentally went to the double trap line without slip-on which was still on the Magnum auto from shooting skeet. If I'd been shooting with friendlier pair, I would have stopped and run back to the table for slip-on, but those two can easily get upset about nothing so I put up with it. Didn't shoot too badly but was pulling the gun out of the pocket for many second targets. Since this Citori is not likely to be used in the field, I'm contemplating an adjustable recoil pad. Graco makes one that is fairly reasonable price and I have the equipment to trim and fit. Thought about one for A-5 but fitting it to a hollow synthetic stock would be tricky. Anyone have experience with these things?
    Last edited by Ontario Honker Hunter; 07-24-2019, 07:50 AM.

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  • CD2
    replied
    Liberals and dog chit, neither allowed in my yard.

    My Citori Magnum hit too high for me, nice older fixed choke gun. Bummer.
    Went back to 1100.

    Might look for a bbl and run the old man's 1100 Trap if drawn for dove.
    Steel in a Mod works OK.
    Like a heavier gun. My standard model w synth stock and 26" Imp Cyl was just a bit too light.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ontario Honker Hunter
    replied
    PIghunter, glad you've explained the source of animosity. I'm sure there were more deep seated reasons for your divorce than the dog taking over the bed. I would hope so anyway. FYI my wife never let the dogs sleep on the bed but they were allowed to get on the couch with me after our son died. I generally do not allow them on the bed but sometimes they sneak up there. In the fall they sleep with me when we're in Montana because there's really not enough room in the trailer for them all to sleep on the floor (though Opal preferred the floor unless it was very cold out). They want to sleep with me in strange places like motel rooms and I usually throw an old sleeping bag on top so they don't get bed coverings hairy or dirty. I suppose I could be stricter about it but I guess I'm spoiling myself as much as them.

    Back on topic: I shot another perfect round at skeet tonight and also 22/25. Low gun of course. The Citori finally arrived this afternoon and I shot 22 and 24 trap with it. No skeet chokes for it so I shot skeet with the big gun. The Citori seems to fit well (with added slip-on recoil pad) and it has a marvellous trigger. Seemed strange at first shooting a gun that didn't jump around after each shot (A-5 utilizes the long recoil "double shuffle"). A pleasure to shoot in spite of more felt recoil. Be interesting to see how it handles low gun. I'll let you know after clays on Thursday. IC over modified Invector+ chokes came in the gun and that is a good combination for our course. Two skeet chokes and one full choke for trap are on order.

    Leave a comment:


  • PigHunter
    replied
    Originally posted by RustyGunz60 View Post

    It's not a stretch for me. Dogs will give you far more unquestionable love than any human will, no matter how little you may give in return. There are many good people out there, but enough bad ones that the more time I spend around people the more I want to spend with my dogs. I've always been a Labrador man, having no use for and nothing but disdain for little lap dogs. So naturally the ratty little Dachshund my wife talked me into instantly bonded to me rather than her. She has to put it in another room when I come home because she's afraid it is going to pass out from the scene it makes when I walk through the door. I also wake most mornings with it curled up on my chest. The first time, before fully awake, I thought I was having a heart attack, from the chest pressure. It's been a while since I've had a human on top of me.
    RustyGunz, that's what happened with a terrier my Ex-Wife brought home. That dog bonded with me and wanted to sit in my lap before she would with other people. Part of the connection was when we hunted squirrels. I guess they see the man of the house as the Alpha dog. I was ok with it for a few years because the kids enjoyed having a couple of dogs.

    But I tried to draw the line about having the dog sleep with us 4 years into ownership. But the Ex wouldn't listen to my complaints. So, I started sleeping in another room and moved out within 4 months, filing for divorce. It's been 15 years and I haven't had a dog since. I sometimes frame that divorce as a battle between us adults for Alpha position.

    But it all ended up well, because I met PigHuntress and she's a much better wife.

    Leave a comment:


  • RustyGunz60
    replied
    Originally posted by PigHunter View Post

    OHH, that was a stretch. I share love and life events with other humans. Doing that with animals is inadequate in comparison. Just a different perspective and priorities from you.
    It's not a stretch for me. Dogs will give you far more unquestionable love than any human will, no matter how little you may give in return. There are many good people out there, but enough bad ones that the more time I spend around people the more I want to spend with my dogs. I've always been a Labrador man, having no use for and nothing but disdain for little lap dogs. So naturally the ratty little Dachshund my wife talked me into instantly bonded to me rather than her. She has to put it in another room when I come home because she's afraid it is going to pass out from the scene it makes when I walk through the door. I also wake most mornings with it curled up on my chest. The first time, before fully awake, I thought I was having a heart attack, from the chest pressure. It's been a while since I've had a human on top of me.

    Leave a comment:


  • PigHunter
    replied
    Originally posted by Ontario Honker Hunter View Post

    And no dog to greet you when you come home, or try to cheer you when you're feeling bad, or lay with its head on your lap just for the heck of it. Dogs are better humans than people will ever be. They love unconditionally and they are truthful to a fault. Yeah sure, there's dog hair in my house and my car. Never get something for nothing and a little hair is a small price to pay for what my dogs give to me. Very sad that you can't be bothered with being loved. Watching them work is one of the greatest joys in my life. I love seeing them do what they love. All about love. Vehicles don't show any love. They're just stuff ... something to show off. I think I have the right priorities.
    OHH, that was a stretch. I share love and life events with other humans. Doing that with animals is inadequate in comparison. Just a different perspective and priorities from you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ontario Honker Hunter
    replied
    Originally posted by springerman3 View Post

    Your description of practicing at night was "mounting and swinging" to it.
    No where in the sentence would anyone with reasonable shotgun shooting knowledge think you are using the move, mount, shoot technique plus using a stationary object to practice that method.
    As well with your stories of fabulous retrieves of birds that were butt shot would clearly indicate that you are not using that method or ( most likely ) not correctly....
    Maybe have George spend some time with you on the range would be a good thing to do 😏
    Obviously practising at a stationary target on the ceiling is not the same as shooting at a pulled target on the range. The target is not moving. The objective of the in home practice is 1) to ensure I naturally close left eye as the gun comes up (my left eye is screwed up - shooting with both eyes open puts the pattern high and to the right) and 2) to practice ensuring the gun is naturally positioned in proper mount.

    George certainly does not shoot better than me. I'm sure at some point in his life he might have been more competitive but it's a struggle for him to get half the targets now. He simply cannot see them (and usually doesn't even shoot). George shoots low gun because he has to. Like me, he has failing vision. I don't see that he moves, mounts, swings, shoots, etc., etc. any better or differently than I do when I shoot low gun.

    Would I ever have changed from high gun at the range if I hadn't had the vision problems handicapping me at the flurry shoot leading me to try something else? Probably not. But just imagine how much better I would be shooting low gun if I was 20/20 in both eyes and no floaters fogging my shooting eye's vision. I probably would never have figured it out. Adversity is the mother of invention ... and also improvement.

    Come hunting with me in Montana this year. Show me what a hot shot you are hitting pheasants in the head every time. After putting in ten miles on the hoof and a bird flushes in a thirty mile/hr wind, we'll see if you can even get the gun to your shoulder in time to get a shot, let alone worry about hitting the bird in the head. Five years ago I killed the first dozen birds before missing a shot. The year before it was first eleven without missing a shot. Those days are gone! I'm actually a better shot now (with much better eyesight) ... if I'm reasonably fresh. But there is no hope of staying "reasonably fresh" if there's no birds. Last year old Opal got me the only daily limit in the last two seasons. That's six weeks or more per year hunting almost daily. The piece of property Opal and I hunted that day is just under four miles in length. I hunted it end to end and then back to the middle, including several side trips up adjacent coulees. That was a relatively easy day!

    Leave a comment:


  • springerman3
    replied
    Originally posted by Ontario Honker Hunter View Post

    You see nothing. Of course I move the gun to the target while mounting it. I have been field hunting for more than fifty years. Moving before mounting comes naturally by now. This is one reason why shooting trap or skeet/clays high gun is actually detrimental for field hunting. With the possible exception of #3 trap, the gun and shooter are already pointed somewhere else and have to realign with the target when it's thrown. That takes time and opens up more opportunities for getting off track (swinging by the target laterally or horizontally as shooter tries to correct the direction of his gun to target). Moving from low gun to the target as the gun is mounted is more of a smooth symmetrical movement. The gun should float in one motion/direction from port arms to intercepting the target. Note that I am NO fan of follow-through method of shooting, not at the range anyway.
    Your description of practicing at night was "mounting and swinging" to it.
    No where in the sentence would anyone with reasonable shotgun shooting knowledge think you are using the move, mount, shoot technique plus using a stationary object to practice that method.
    As well with your stories of fabulous retrieves of birds that were butt shot would clearly indicate that you are not using that method or ( most likely ) not correctly....
    Maybe have George spend some time with you on the range would be a good thing to do 😏

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