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Winchester deer season. .223 any experience.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by DakotaMan View Post
    If he shoots the deer in the foot, a .375 H&H won't do the job either. I've seen more deer run away unrecovered with a 30-06 than with any other cartridge. I believe that is because so many hunters use them. I also believe that is because a significant percentage of hunters are Bozos. Please don't blame the .223 (like many people do) for a lost deer if he shoots it in the foot or blows its leg off. Bad shots make cripples; good shots make steaks. This holds true if you are deer hunting with anything from a .223 to a 50 BMG. If he can hit a pie plate at 100 yards, he will probably do OK deer hunting with a .223. I personally prefer finer accuracy but it isn't really necessary on a big fat deer.
    DM I respectfully disagree with the whole premise of your argument ! No one is saying poor shooting with any caliber is acceptable with any rifle , shotgun or bow ! This is not about shooting a deer in the foot , it’s about hunting deer with a small caliber with less foot pounds of energy ! Yes the 223 is capable of killing deer but the question is “ is it a good choice ?” No it isn’t unless you severely limit your shots ! I do not know or speak for anyone else but for me I get presented with many different shots in many different scenarios . Trotting through timber , standing quartering in brushy areas , cold very windy days with snow in my face , five to 500 yards, only the shoulder showing and one more step and gone! Real hunting , real chances ( for enough rifle ) and real concerns for a 223 no matter who is pulling the trigger. It offends me when a discussion turns to the absurd to make a point and it is not in even in the poorest Hunter vernacular ! I got a good shot in the foot ?? Come on ! This is all about one thing , hunting ! Not shooting , paper or steel but bullet hitting flesh , poor bullet performance causing undo suffering ! Can we just for the purpose of discussion agree the shooter wants to make a shot that is in the kill zone and not a leg or foot shot. I bought a Tikka t3 in 2012 in 22-250 for my young son to shoot and help him developer better shooting skills . He had a 7600 270 for deer and had killed several good bucks with it . I wanted something lighter recoil to help him get more practice and less recoil all the time . So I loaded up some 60 gr Nosler partitions and thought about using it to reduce the does on our lease . One in particular that busted him all archery season ! He hated this do so much he named it domosexual ! Well I got home from work early and had a chance to hunt so I took out the Tikka. There she came 350 yards away and looked right at the stand I was in ! She never came closer and fed away from me , I couldn’t take that shot because it was too risky . If it had been a fox , coyote or groundhog I would have pulled the trigger in a second. If it was with my 270 or 3006 I would have killed her right where she was standing but it was out of my self imposed range ! One thing I can say on all this is use enough gun and your chances are extremely better , using a 223 does not give you all the ethical shots I need in hunting situations . Unless I start foot shooting then it fine !

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    • #17
      I’m starting to think this guy is doing you a favor by not taking you up on the offer. He sounds like the type that doesn’t take care of other people’s stuff. Since you won’t actually be with him it’s likely things would go south, either with a messed up rifle or having to get it back.

      Bad deal all the way around but kudos for trying to be a thoughtful F-i-L.

      Comment


      • #18
        They're everywhere!
        The relative or friend who we think highly of, but just doesn't seem to understand that there is a big difference between shooting deer and shooting "AT" deer.

        My goal, such as it is, is to kill a turkey with a .410.
        ...BUT...I'm also aware that any shot has to be chosen carefully and shot placement exact with specific ammo.


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        • #19
          No my sil learned hard lessons about borrowing my stuff. I’ll give my kids the world because of my grandkids. But you have to be responsible. He borrowed my double bevel compounding sliding mitre saw last month I needed it back when I picked it up he had cleaned better than I ever have. I don’t worry about him tearing my stuff up he knows you break you buy. He does ok no man is good enough for your daughters. He has come a long way since he was a snotty nosed 19 year old punk. He didn’t necessarily have a great male role model growing up. So we had to learn some lessons later in life. I will say this when I call and ask he’s right there. I don’t ask much very often but when I do it’s usually a big ask. He’s the one who helped me haul and hand spread 20 yards of dirt for my front yard. And didn’t complain once.
          Last edited by Milldawg; 10-20-2021, 03:29 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Pmacc60 View Post

            I like your style milldawg ! Don’t change a thing!!
            Ditto milldawg... I take offense to anyone who calls a 25-06 a girl's gun. I can think of about a hundred cartridges that kill deer effectively. I can't think of one that works better though.
            Last edited by DakotaMan; 10-20-2021, 10:28 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Pmacc60 View Post

              DM I respectfully disagree with the whole premise of your argument ! No one is saying poor shooting with any caliber is acceptable with any rifle , shotgun or bow ! This is not about shooting a deer in the foot ...
              Sorry there pmacc... I used an exaggeration to make a point. My point was simply that hunters should never blame their rifle for a bad shot and I know of NO cartridge that delivers good performance with a bad shot. I've hunted hard for more than 65 years now and I've seen goofy people shoot deer in places I didn't even know they had places. None of those ended well; regardless of cartridge.

              Some rifles are more powerful than others but I have had fair success with a measly arrow. If you are using a .223, you should not be shooting deer at 500 yards. If you shoot within 250 yards,you will have plenty of power for deer. It will work fine with good bullets. People seem to think it won't but it is typically those who have never seen it work.

              I sure don't disagree with you on using a larger cartridge if you intend to shoot deer. I use a 25-06 out to 500 yards and a .300 Dakota from 600-1200 yards. I've never had a need or desire to shoot white tails beyond 500 yards though. I think I've shot more white tails inside of 20 yards than I have over 250 yards. If the brush is so thick, I can't walk through it, I use a .35 Rem.
              Last edited by DakotaMan; 10-22-2021, 11:04 AM.

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              • #22
                I've never shot a .25-06 Rem, but I've often heard them referred to as "Thor's Hammer".
                What a light"ish" bullet at "hyper" velocity can do to deer sized animals is mind boggling!
                Ergo, Thor's Hammer!

                Sissy gun my left hind leg! 😖

                I shot a deer with a 90 grain HP out of my .270 Win with a muzzle velocity up around 3800 fps! About a 130 yard shot.
                I literally watched the deer's feet flip over in the scope before recoil spoiled the sight picture!
                Last edited by FirstBubba; 10-20-2021, 10:54 PM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Milldawg View Post
                  No my sil learned hard lessons about borrowing my stuff. I’ll give my kids the world because of my grandkids. But you have to be responsible. He borrowed my double bevel compounding sliding mitre saw last month I needed it back when I picked it up he had cleaned better than I ever have. I don’t worry about him tearing my stuff up he knows you break you buy. He does ok no man is good enough for your daughters. He has come a long way since he was a snotty nosed 19 year old punk. He didn’t necessarily have a great male role model growing up. So we had to learn some lessons later in life. I will say this when I call and ask he’s right there. I don’t ask much very often but when I do it’s usually a big ask. He’s the one who helped me haul and hand spread 20 yards of dirt for my front yard. And didn’t complain once.
                  Sounds like you’ve got it figured out between you then, that’s good.

                  My 15 year old daughter just asked her mother if she could “date” about a month ago. Meaning could she have a boyfriend. He’s a decent kid, same age. The extent of their dating is Face Time and texting, other than hallway meetings between classes. Figure I have a little over a year before he gets a driver’s license……..

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                  • #24
                    'dawg, fitch270, I feel for you guys.
                    I can only imagine the trials and tribulations of raising a teen daughter in today's world.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by FirstBubba View Post
                      'dawg, fitch270, I feel for you guys.
                      I can only imagine the trials and tribulations of raising a teen daughter in today's world.
                      No truer words spoken Bubba ! Growing old is by far not the greatest happening, but I guess it does have at least one advantage.........
                      The best to all you fellows who are young enough to have teen daughters ! 😉

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by fitch270 View Post

                        Sounds like you’ve got it figured out between you then, that’s good.

                        My 15 year old daughter just asked her mother if she could “date” about a month ago. Meaning could she have a boyfriend. He’s a decent kid, same age. The extent of their dating is Face Time and texting, other than hallway meetings between classes. Figure I have a little over a year before he gets a driver’s license……..
                        My daughter is 15 also and I'm not liking it at al !!!!!!!! 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 .

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Danbo View Post

                          My daughter is 15 also and I'm not liking it at al !!!!!!!! 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 .
                          Yes sir! My hat's off to you too!

                          These are difficult, trying times.

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                          • #28
                            Everyone has their village idiots...You love them, but you don't need to participate amongst foolishness.
                            That being said, for the distances most people hunt at, under 200 yards, most rifles have the accuracy to get the job done.
                            Most cheap scopes will hold zero, but changing magnification on some of them will result in POI changes.
                            Since I don't have a clue the accuracy this AR is capable of, what twist rate it has, how the scope holds zero, what ammo he really is going to use or his capability when shooting from field positions, I don't have a comment for his situation.

                            A 223 Remington that is accurate, has a good optic, with good ammo, with someone on the gun who know how to run it=Dead Deer.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by crm3006 View Post
                              I have killed a lot of deer with a .30-'06. I favor heart or shoulder shots, but a shoulder, though a sure knock down, ruins a lot of meat. I've killed a lot of deer with a .25-06, and the only difference I can tell in the knock down or bang-flop, is that I can generally hear the .30 hit, and rarely hear the .25 hit. I can tell by the sound of a bullet hitting whether it hit bone, meat, or solid bone.
                              That being said, this year I moved down to a .22-250. With the 55 gr. Nosler Ballistic tips, every deer and pig went down like they were hit by a ton of bricks. Two of the heart shots ran, but only a short distance.
                              To reiterate much of what has already been written, it ain't the size of the bullet, but where that bullet hits. I hope that the young man will use a good NBT, VMax, or some other suitable bullet, and put it where it counts.
                              Good comment CRM but I have to mention... the VMAX bullet is a highly frangible (i.e. disintegrates when it hits a grape) bullet. Not likely to go through the hide of an adult deer. I suspect the NBT will do the job but it doesn't have nearly the penetration power of the Partition bullet. The NBT really does the job in a .308 but the .224 version is going faster and the polymer tip causes it to expand real fast.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by DakotaMan View Post

                                Good comment CRM but I have to mention... the VMAX bullet is a highly frangible (i.e. disintegrates when it hits a grape) bullet. Not likely to go through the hide of an adult deer. I suspect the NBT will do the job but it doesn't have nearly the penetration power of the Partition bullet. The NBT really does the job in a .308 but the .224 version is going faster and the polymer tip causes it to expand real fast.
                                Loaded some 110 grain V-MAX for my 6.8mm. I was out of Sierra 90 grain HP's and that's all I could get my hands on.
                                Killed one pig and one deer. Both one shot kills.
                                ...and it even said on the box they were suggested for varmints.

                                Comment

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