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Best Performing Straight walled Case

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  • #16
    If it shoots that well, what else do you need?

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    • #17
      I want H&R to come back. I'm not sure how I feel about CVA's break lever, and T/C's Encore is as shown good but expensive.

      I'd be tempted to pickup a Compass or a Venture as a spare or starter rifle instead of the Encore. The price difference is just a bit high.

      Even if I don't like this CVA hunter, checking gun broker, I'm looking to make a little bit of money off of it which I might used to try and trade up. In fact, very tempted to just resell as soon as I have it in my hands.

      We'll see. Maybe I really like it and Start shooting CVA rifles, but they still don't have the caliber selection H&R had...


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      • #18
        Picked it up today!

        Really impressed with the trigger pull. Not sure about about the break lever location, but I would probably buy a scout II, if they have one in a caliber I like.

        The whole thing seems a bit light. So I'm very tempted to shoot it just to see how it handles but doing so means I can no longer sell it NIB. Might do it anyway. It's a good thing I have 2 other rifles that I need to sight in before I should mess with this one.

        So far I don't think I'm going to keep it, but can't help but wonder how it patterns. Also probably need to get a fixed power scope for it. I hate to say it but the prism scope I got just doesn't have the eye relief for this, and it's a very compact rifle.

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        • #19
          Yeah...I'm not sure either. I think I'd just move it along...but then I'm not that crazy about the caliber.

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          • #20
            In the world of straight wall cartridges, why is everyone overlooking the .444 Marlin? Definitely superior to the .45-70, and I read somewhere that Remlin was coming out with a rifle chambered for the .444.
            Personally, I would look around until I could find an older JM in .444, but that's just me.
            Another one that barely gets a mention is the .375 Winchester. I have one, and for a brush gun, it is a sure-fire stopper on hogs and deer. Or anything, for that matter, out to about 200 yds. .375 ammunition is a bit pricy, but it isn't anything you want to target shoot with, anyway. Just a very good, hard hitting straight wall cartridge.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by FirstBubba View Post
              Yeah...I'm not sure either. I think I'd just move it along...but then I'm not that crazy about the caliber.
              I think if I lived below the shotgun line of Michigan, or Ohio, I'd probably keep it. I called up my cousin back home. He's got one in in a mossberg patriot and lives out in the thumb. Says basically him and all of his neighbors have one for hunting over their fields. Basically everyone out there thinks that the .350 Legend was oversold.

              His advice was to skip the popular opinion of a 150yd zero and go with a 200yd zero, that way you'd only ever be a little high on anything out to 200yd, and you could maybe attempt a 250 or 300yd in a pinch, and you're already doubling the max range of a saboted rifled barrel slug with better terminal ballistics. He's got good points. I'm looking for a scope for it now. I really wish these prism scopes had better eye relief distances.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by crm3006 View Post
                In the world of straight wall cartridges, why is everyone overlooking the .444 Marlin? Definitely superior to the .45-70, and I read somewhere that Remlin was coming out with a rifle chambered for the .444.
                Personally, I would look around until I could find an older JM in .444, but that's just me.
                Another one that barely gets a mention is the .375 Winchester. I have one, and for a brush gun, it is a sure-fire stopper on hogs and deer. Or anything, for that matter, out to about 200 yds. .375 ammunition is a bit pricy, but it isn't anything you want to target shoot with, anyway. Just a very good, hard hitting straight wall cartridge.

                Those are all great points. I believe (could be wrong) the .444 Marlin holds the title of the fastest factory load for straight wall. However, for the .45-70, that tremendous case capacity combined with modern materials and designs opens it up to some truly monstrous loads that aren't typically captured anywhere outside of top secret handloaders Kabal meetings. I know someone will post all about how fast their .350 legend is but 160gr federal fusion going 2300fps, is less powerful and slower than a 240gr bullet going 2350fps they can argue but I'm pretty sure on paper and IRL the .444 still wins... would love to see evidence otherwise.

                .375win you'd think would be a lot more popular considering it out performs the .350 legend so handily. Maybe it's a forgotten cartridge? Maybe it's the ammo price? Maybe a Delta L / Case Length issue?
                I know there was some bullshit about the bullet dimensions for the states that allow straight walled cases but still have minimum bullet dia dimensions. Some DNR fuckery about .002" maybe we should start a separate thread about that. I don't any Iowa deer hunters on the boards anymore.

                In anycase, I think there's probably room for improvement , and I could prove it if I bothered to point to the wildcat cartridges or .444Marlin or .450Marlin. Maybe it's all part of a plan to keep selling new rifles and ammo in coming years.

                Henry still makes rifles in 38-55 Win. I wouldn't try loading them in .375win (I like being alive and unmaimed), but maybe some guys are? Again I don't know know if it would actually chamber or if it's legitimately enough of a difference to prevent loading or even barrel damage

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                • #23
                  Buckshott00- Good points about the .444 vs. the .45-70, and I think the old .45-70 is seeing a revival of sorts, because it seems to be a favorite with lever gun enthusiasts and some cowboy action shooters. I just like the .444 because it is, or was, the fastest factory loaded straight wall. I know that some handloaders push the envelope, and come up with other results, but I really like my hands fingers, eyeballs, etc. I doubt any deer, elk, moose or bear could tell the difference in a shot from a .444 or a .45-70.
                  As to the .375 Winchester, I'm like you, I can't figure out it's lack of popularity. You would think, with the changing regulations in the shotgun only states, to straight wall cartridge's, that the .375W would have had some popularity boost, at least. I know everyone who writes about it thinks it is the cat's meow, but that doesn't seem to be affecting the availability of ammunition. (SCARCE!)
                  I don't know about the compatibility of .38-55/.375W ammunition, but until I research that a lot deeper, the only thing that is going in my 94 Big Bore XTR will be marked .375 Winchester. Like I said, I like all my fingers, etc.

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                  • #24
                    I can't figure the dismal .375W response.
                    Unless that's about the time the big "mangle-ems" became more popular.
                    The late 60's through the early 90's, if you weren't shooting a bolt gun, you were about as popular as Hanoi Jane at a VFW.

                    .38-55/.375W? Had no idea they were (supposedly?) twins!

                    I dunno either guys, but other than the .38-55 or .375W don't AR very well, I think I like both/either cartridge.

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                    • #25
                      Enough slight differences that I wouldn't try a .38-55 in a .375, 0r vice-versa.

                      .38-55 Winchester

                      Ballard Rifle & Cartridge Company
                      1884
                      Rimmed straight
                      .3775 in (9.59 mm)
                      .392 in (10.0 mm)
                      .421 in (10.7 mm)
                      .506 in (12.9 mm)
                      2.085 in (53.0 mm)
                      2.510 in (63.8 mm)
                      1 turn in 18"
                      30,000 CUP









                      .375 Winchester

                      Description

                      Description

                      The .375 Winchester is a modernized version of the .38-55 Winchester, a black powder cartridge from the 1880s. It was introduced in 1978 along with the Winchester Model 94 “Big Bore” lever action rifle.

                      Bullet diameter: .375 in (9.5 mm)
                      Case length: 2.020 in (51.3 mm)
                      Parent case: .38-55 Winchester
                      Rim diameter: .506 in (12.9 mm)
                      Neck diameter: .400 in (10.2 mm)
                      Base diameter: .420 in (10.7 mm)
                      Overall length: 2.560 in (65.0 mm)

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by crm3006 View Post
                        Buckshott00- Good points about the .444 vs. the .45-70, and I think the old .45-70 is seeing a revival of sorts, because it seems to be a favorite with lever gun enthusiasts and some cowboy action shooters. I just like the .444 because it is, or was, the fastest factory loaded straight wall. I know that some handloaders push the envelope, and come up with other results, but I really like my hands fingers, eyeballs, etc. I doubt any deer, elk, moose or bear could tell the difference in a shot from a .444 or a .45-70.
                        As to the .375 Winchester, I'm like you, I can't figure out it's lack of popularity. You would think, with the changing regulations in the shotgun only states, to straight wall cartridge's, that the .375W would have had some popularity boost, at least. I know everyone who writes about it thinks it is the cat's meow, but that doesn't seem to be affecting the availability of ammunition. (SCARCE!)
                        I don't know about the compatibility of .38-55/.375W ammunition, but until I research that a lot deeper, the only thing that is going in my 94 Big Bore XTR will be marked .375 Winchester. Like I said, I like all my fingers, etc.
                        I had the .444 in a Marlin anniversary model years ago. Unfortunately at the time only pistol bullets were available for it so I sold it.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I'm surprised some of the .460 S&W and .500 S&W crowd haven't chimed in. Maybe it's like you said Jimbo, they're having a hard time finding rifle bullets... seems like they'd be pretty good for white tail if you got the longer barrels for them but then again, might be pretty devastating for the meat too.

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                          • #28

                            Buckshott00- I don't know much about the .460 and .500 S&Ws, except that if they have more muzzle blast and recoil than my .44 Mag. 6", with full .44 Mag loads, I don't want to find out. I shot a .454 Casul a few times, and that baby definitely ain't for the faint of heart!
                            What I was getting at, was the meat devastation. Just as a matter of observation on deer, the bigger and slower the bullet, the less meat damage. For example, my .30-'06 is a lot less damaging with a fairly hot 165 gr. load, than the .25-06 with a 115 gr. load. A .270 Winchester will tear out a shoulder. An 8 m/m factory load doesn't really tear up that much. The .375W leaves a big bloody hole through both sides of a rib cage, but no excessive bullet shards or bloody meat like I have seen with hot .22-250s or even .243s.
                            I haven't actually seen what those big bore pistol cartridges do, just speculating from what I have seen with various rifle calibers. Maybe you or someone else on the thread has some experience to relate?

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