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I know I keep asking a lot of questions, but if a Weatherby Mark V get sub-MOA groups and my $400 Savage 111 easily gets sub-MOA

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  • I know I keep asking a lot of questions, but if a Weatherby Mark V get sub-MOA groups and my $400 Savage 111 easily gets sub-MOA

    I know I keep asking a lot of questions, but if a Weatherby Mark V get sub-MOA groups and my $400 Savage 111 easily gets sub-MOA groups (I haven't shot it much, but once I got 2 shots right through the same hole. I could barely tell there were 2 shots in that hole.) what's the advantage of a Weatherby Mark V over a Savage 111? Would I pay $1000 more just for better fit and finish?

  • #2
    M.A.T., it is the Weatherby Vanguard 2, not the Mark V, that has a sub-MOA guarantee. Sub-MOA means at least a three shot group measuring .99 inches or less center-to-center at 100 yards. Many modern rifles from $400 on up are capable of this level of accuracy with good bullets so it is more of a marketing gimmick than a valued feature.

    As a matter of fact, the only rifle I own that can't do better than a .5 MOA group is my Weatherby Mark V and it is closer to 2 MOA with lots of tuning. Most of my rifles shoot closer to .25 MOA (with tuned handloads) with their average cost around $1000 to $1200. The cost goes up the closer you get to .1 MOA. My Rem 700 Sendero and Bushmaster Varminter shoot .25 out of the box. The Howa 1500 I picked up for $375 shot some .1 MOA groups after I glass/pillar bedded it and floated the barrel. This is the same rifle as the Wby Vanguard with a different stock. Some of the Howa manufactured rifles (Howa 1500 and Vanguard) are exceptionally accurate and Weatherby is culling them for those that significantly beat 1 MOA.

    You are good to go with your Savage 111. Many Savage 111s shoot better than .5 MOA with good hand loads that are tuned to the specific rifle. If they don't, it is relatively inexpensive to crank a premium air gauged barrel on them for benchrest accuracy. Accuracy that high is valued in long range shooting, varmint shooting and competitive target shooting but is really not necessary for most deer hunting situations.

    Whether you want to pay $1000 for beauty or not is a matter of your financial perspective and appreciation of beauty. The extra beauty of a Mark V won't get you more game or even improve your accuracy but it will make you look mighty nice while you are shooting it. That is why I bought a used Weatherby Deluxe wooden stock for my Howa... now I look really good in the pictures! You can see a picture of it in my profile.

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    • #3
      I don't know if you would pay $1,000 more for a better rifle or not. It is not just fit and finish that puts rifles like the Sako and Mark V out in front of offerings from Savage and the like. Some folks like driving a Suburban and others are just as happy with a Hyundai. All about choices, my friend.

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      • #4
        Dakota Man,
        Thank you for your answer, but I did mean the Mark V because I was not going off company guarantee, rather that other people on this website have said they have said they're able to get sub-MOA accuracy. And to simlpify my question I meant what is the advantage of the Mark V over the Savage 111 if the Savage is just as, if not more than accurate than the Mark V.

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        • #5
          MAT, sounds like you had your answer before you asked the question. If all you're looking for is accuracy, and you're 111 fits the bill, then you would actually be a moron to drop 1000$ on something sub par. Keep what works and be proud of it.

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          • #6
            M.A.T. I would not expect sub-MOA accuracy from the Mark V although some shoot quite well. I would expect a more esthetic look and feel including a fluted barrel, outstanding finish, a smoother action, nice stock, a 60 degree bolt throw (my favorite aspect of a Mark V for quick cycling), and a recognition among your friends that you own a mighty high priced rifle. I would not expect it however to be more accurate or more reliable than your Savage. My top requirements in a rifle are accuracy, accuracy, accuracy and reliability so I don't consider a Mark V to be a better rifle, it is prettier and more expensive but not necessarily better. Each of us has our own preferences though so what is best for me may not be best for you.

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            • #7
              MAT, Besides the outstanding finish of the Weatherby Mark V, the rifle for many years was the main source for the proprietary high intensity cartridges developed by Roy Weatherby - from varmint up to and including ant dangerous game on the Continent. The accuracy guarantee applied to the Mark V with factory Weatherby ammunition.
              Other things like the care in bluing contribute to the image of the firearm. For instance, in the booklet that came with my Mark V Deluxe said the action has 8 man hours of work in the bluing and polishing of the action. For function, the strength of the 9 locking lug bolt is legendary and was tested by Roy Weatherby by putting a bullet in the chamber and a live .300WbyMag shell behind it and firing them. The result was no damage to the action, bolt or rifle. I don't think I would try that with a Savage 111.
              In recent years a lot of Manufacturers have 'caught up' to the accuracy potential of the Weatherby. The Remington 783 has a ad where 5 shot group is 3/4". Not bad for a production rifle.
              Any way for those who appreciate the Weatherby, they will spend the bucks to get one - others will settle for other Manufacturers offerings. Don't get me wrong, there are some great rifles out there - they just are not Weatherby's/

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              • #8
                DakotaMan,
                You need to send your Mark V back to Ed. Guaranteed to shoot under 1.5 MOA. Not saying every Mark V shoots under 1 MOA, but mine do. BTW, if your Remington, Savage, or Winchester shoots under 3 MOA, they will send it back saying there is nothing wrong with it. Life is too short to hunt with cheap rifles, marry an ugly woman, or drink cheap whisky. Just a thought....

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                • #9
                  Just about any rifle is "capable" of MOA accuracy, "IF", you know what to do.
                  It can be as simple as developing a specific bullet/load to free floating or bedding the barrel/action. Sometimes, it requires a gunsmith's knowledge. Some things you can do on your own.

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                  • #10
                    A Kia and a Cadillac can both drive the speed limit, so why would you pay more for the Caddy?

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                    • #11
                      You're can't be serious?

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                      • #12
                        You're comparing apples and oranges. If you think that all you get with a Weatherby is better fit and finish stay with the Savage. I have both brands actually three (3) of each and two in the same caliber, 22-250. I'll use the 22-250 to illustrate my point. The Weatherby is a Lazermark, beautiful figured lazer engraved wood with a deeply blued 26" No. 3 contour barrrel with the fabled Mark V action. The Savage is one of the highest end Savages with a stainless bull barrel and synthetic stock (by HP Precision no less) that will put 5 shots in the same ragged hole. It is more accurate and is attactive in that it fits its purpose but is not a beautiful gun. The Savage has the Accutrigger but the Weatherby also has a great trigger. I would not trade any of my Weatherby's for a Savage but I would trade my Savages for Weatherby's. Savages are workking rifles, Weatherby's are closer to Custom Rifles. On the resale market the Weatherby's hold their value the Savages don't.

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