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: After read the latest issue and seeing the article on cartridges I went to the gun cabinet to check on a rifle that was my gra

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  • : After read the latest issue and seeing the article on cartridges I went to the gun cabinet to check on a rifle that was my gra

    : After read the latest issue and seeing the article on cartridges I went to the gun cabinet to check on a rifle that was my grandfathers. It is not the 9.3 mm that was mentioned but instead a 9 mm Mauser. How does this stack up as a hunting rifle? When my Dad handed it down to me he said it was an "elephant" gun and that the cartridge was a necked up 8 mm mauser. He also said the round was "slow" with lots of drop. Ammo was hard to find but I have 4 boxes manufactured by a british firm (Kyoch, I think?) Can anyone offer some insight to this rifle and round? Thanks in advance.

  • #2
    The only thing I could find from Kynoch was a 9.5mm Mannlicher Schoenauer with 2150 fps and 2470 pounds of muzzle energy, not sure if this is the rifle you have though but I will keep checking.


    • #3

      There was a 9 X 57 cartridge loaded by Kynoch with a 245 grain, .356 diameter bullet. Now discontinued. The published velocity was between 2100 & 2200 fps. I would assume that it is based on the 8 X 57 case.

      If you want to make up ammo for the rifle and since
      I don't like to assume anything when it comes to older guns, I would suggest a chamber cast with Cerro Safe available from Brownell's. Or, if you have brass fired in the rifle the measurements can be taken from them. A gunsmith can do it easily as can you. If a do it your self project you will need a caliper to take the measurements from the casting or the fired case. Comparisons of measurements can be made to schematics in any loading book for the 8 X 57 then compare to them to the loaded ammo you have. This should confirm if the cartridge is based on the 8 X 57 case. If so a ready source of brass would be available, simply neck up to the larger projectile.

      Dies should be available through Hunnington's as they have dies for most everything.

      As for bullets, not many .356 rifle bullets are out there. .358 bullets might be a tad bit over bore diameter. Slugging the bore can answer questions in this area as to the actual bore diameter. Measuring the bullet diameter in the ammo on hand can also confirm the bullet diameter. Again this can be done by your self or maybe better, a gunsmith.

      A quick check with the Hawk bullets web site showed that they do make two bullets in .356 diameter. 200 and 250 grainers. Check out Dave Petzel's quote on the web page about thier bullets.


      • #4
        Thank you guys!
        Beekeeper you're a wealth of info! I have 4 boxes of ammo so I can measure the bullet. I was wondering what kind of game the gun is suitable for? The slug is massive so I expect a lot of drop at longer ranges.
        idduckhntr: The gun is a work of art! Hand engraves 2 front sights, push doen the bright sight and a black one pops up. 3 different rear sights for elevation. Mauser action that's like snot on a door knob SLICK.
        Cheek piece on a hand rubed linseed oil stock German silver escutions. But no mannlicher stock.


        • #5

          You lucky &*$! Man what a treasure you have! Classic German made mauser excellence all the way. I bet if you look you'll find more little tid bits of German engineering hidden here and there. I'm surprised it doesn't have double set triggers or maybe a single set. If no double triggers, try pushing the trigger forward and see if it clicks. If so you have a single set trigger!

          A 245 grain bullet at 2100 plus is not what I would call and Elephant load, but it will do nicely on deer size game, boar, black bear and even Elk. Larger bears could be shot with it in a pinch, but that might be a bit optimistic... It would have a rainbow like trajectory. Long, heavy bullets at moderate velocity penetrate well and can be quite useful under the right circumstances even at longer ranges.

          If you plan on shooting the rifle you might want to work up loads with new cases and bullets. I'll bet the Kynoch loads are made up with cordite propellent and probably have corrosive primers. If you fire them make sure you clean the bore well to prevent the possibility of corrosion.

          Congratulations on owning such a nice rifle!


          • #6
            I havn't ever seen or shot a 9mm Mauser, but from what I have seen and read it is a pretty awsome cartridge. Sound's fun to me.


            • #7
              Why not tell us what you have exactly, I'd like to know? Read the markings on the barrel and relay it to us, model, name, serial, everything. I'll try to look it up and others bloggers here have manuals I don't have. What is it, you've got me curious.


              • #8
                Sounds like you have express sights and a clasic African big game rifle congrats to you sir, I might also suggest that you check with A Sqaure to see if they have ammo.


                • #9
                  wow that sounds like an awesome rifle. I am shure that that caliber would handle most anything you would want to use it on up to large plains-game, and elk. What a treasure!!!


                  • #10
                    WOW !!! I just checked back here to post that Beekeeper was spot on! My ammo is a 245 grain .356
                    The rifle does have a double set trigger. Would it be worth it to have it drilled and tapped for a scope? I will pull it out of the safe tonight and jot down some info. Take some pics. Can I post 'em here? Without disclosing too much it was my grandfather's he was a guide in the Catskills long ago. I also have a 16ga side by side of the same manf (I think?) at least of the same quality both are fine hand checkered looks to be 20 pts per in or more. I have always valued the guns for their history and both have been hunted but cared for well. Bores are excellent. The shotgun has "hand wear" of the finish where you would expect and is used still for "birds". There is a small chip in the bone butt plate from when my Mom dropped it when she fired it on a date with my Dad! I remember carying it at 16 yrs old and being offered 2400.00 for it from a guy hunting near by!!! I'm 50yrs old now so it must be a gem! Thank you everyone for all your input and appreciation of what I too hold so dear.
                    Be well


                    • #11

                      I wouldn't drill and tap it for a scope if it were mine. I'd shoot it as inteded with the express sights.

                      There is a Joseph Zeller 9 X 57 Mauser in the Cabela's online gun library that is offered for $1,100. Probably very similar to yours.

                      Bufflao Arms is listing ammo in their reformed cases with a 250 grain bullet, probably the Hawk 250.

                      Huntington's is listing Horneber brass and RCBS special order dies for the 9 X 57 on their site. Check out the links below. Let us know how it shoots!



                      • #12
                        Lucky you!
                        I would love to see some pictures.


                        • #13
                          Thanks for the ammo link. Guess I'll have to spring for some and try out the rifle. I was busy over the weekend so will get more info tonight and be back here tmrw!


                          • #14
                            Well Guys!
                            Hold on to your socks! Beekeeper, you will most likely not be as surprised as I was (you had everything right all along!)I pulled th mauser out last night and haven't pulled the pics off the camera yet. The info I took off the rifle was as follows C G Haenel Suhl Germany Gussstahl Krupp Essen 235g GBP. St mg. When I googled this info what I found blew my hair back!!!!!
                            The 2 I found are almost exactly what I have. My rifle doesn't have the peep site on the bolt. My trigger guard is more tear dropped and ornate. Everything else is spot on right down to the "star" engravings and escuhtions. My bore as mentioned is excellent and my case hardening is rich and deep! My stock has a few minor dings but no cracks or chips! I have to say the rifle felt lighter than I remember, seemed to snap up almost instictively. It's a nice rifle I'll have to find a state that has a rifle season with appropriate game and give her a hunt!!!!


                            • #15
                              Sorry Bee! Here are the links to the Mauser that I have
                              the inventory number is mau_0557




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