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this question is for Clay, but anyone else who would like to answer is welcome. you said that a 220 swift is hard on a barrel. h

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  • this question is for Clay, but anyone else who would like to answer is welcome. you said that a 220 swift is hard on a barrel. h

    this question is for Clay, but anyone else who would like to answer is welcome. you said that a 220 swift is hard on a barrel. how so? what about a 25-06? and somebody else commented on my other question and said that a Ruger rifle's rifling with wear down faster than anything else. is that true?

  • #2
    Yes and yes. the problem with a 220 is that some people tend to shoot a light bullet at high velocites and not clean it or over heat it. I would shoot a 55 or 60 grain bullet and let cool. As far as the Ruger goes find a old one with a Douglas barrel. Bottom line is dont over heat,clean it,and dont hot load and the gun will last as long as you want it.


    • #3
      Reid, the .220 Swift is one of the fastest .22s launching the small bullet at over 4,000 fps. Because the bullet is so small in diameter, it has a smaller amount of mass and "skin" in contact with the barrel than would a larger diameter bullet. This deadly combination of:
      a) higher speed than practically any other bullet and b)the smallest amount of "skin" touching the barrel and c)the lowest mass to absorb heat combines to make the .220 Swift burn up barrels faster than just about any other cartrige. A bullet's "sectional density" is a numerical measure of its ability to absorb friction and generate heat as it traverses the barrel.
      The tremendous heat generated by the friction against this small bullet actually wears a little of the barrel out with each shot. Although other rifles like the 25-06 are almost as fast, they are not quite THAT fast and they are bigger and heavier, therefore able to absorb more heat without getting to a critical threshold that burns barrels. I don't have the specific numbers but when I shot the Swift, I think the barrel was gone after about 1,800 shots. That is about 5-10 days of prarie dog hunting for me or if you shoot 5 rounds a year it could last you a life time. When I moved to the 25-06, I shot about 10,000 shots or so before I burned out the barrel. Not scientific because I never kept good records of exactly how many I actually shot. I also mixed 75 grain bullets and 87 grain bullets casually as I switched from targets to prairie dogs to coyotes, etc. For comparison, my .300 Dakota shoots 110 grain bullets at 4,100 feet per second. I don't shoot many of those because they will burn the barrel too... not as much as the much smaller .220 Swift bullet but they will burn. Finally, will Ruger barrels wear? As you probaly know, barrels are all made from various types of steel. Some much harder than others. Different processes are used to cut the rifling as well. Most factory barrels stamped out for commodity sale at retail are not the finest barrels made. Most have rough surfaces on the rifling compared to mirror smooth rifling on premium barrels. This combination of steel and rifling affects accuracy and barrel life. Military barrels are being made today that will allow 2,000 rounds a day to be fired even in full automatic mode without the wear you would see on a consumer grade rifle. Some factory rifles are shooters and some are duds... I wouldn't worry too much myself as Rugers are pretty nice out of the factory. If you don't like your barrel, you can smooth the barrel with special polishing bullets or you can put on a premium barrel for a couple hundred dollars if you have to.
      So... Swifts are not terrible if you can tollerate the barrel life and Rugers aren't necessarily worse than many others. The .220 Swift is the funnest rifle I have ever shot because I could see the bullets hitting in the scope before the rifle could recoil. But once I went to the 25-06, I never went back to it because the .25 was as accurate, almost as fast and almost as much fun and I really never worried about wearing out the barrel although I am now on my 4th barrel on that rifle after about 40-50,000 rounds. I consider premium barrels as the key ingredient to accuracy anyway so I don't mind popping a premium barrel on a nice looking rifle to make it a tack driver.


      • #4
        Damn DM I don't think I can top that one except with simple redneck reasoning. Barrel errosion comes from two things, heat and fouling. If you don't shot fast Is, P Dog hunting and clean your barrel every 20 shots or so then the 22 swift is NOT so bad, but It will burn out barrels faster than most just because it is so much faster, 22-250 had a bad rap to start with too but is is one of my favorites. Anyway hope that helps

        DM one of the best explainations of Barrel wear that I have seen. Where have you been for the last six months? I gave you a plus but I'da gave you 5 if I could have!


        • #5
          Looks like about everything that can be said has already been stated but as usual I can throw in another comment or two. The newer Swifts with stainless barrels seem to hold up better than the earlier carbon steel barrels. Still you don't need to overheat them which is a temptation when p-dawgs are running everywhere.
          I had an old Ruger M-77 which fell in the Douglas barrel time frame of manufacture according to Bill Ruger who I encountered on the local range years ago. That rifle is a .22-.250 heavy barrel but was always been loaded and yielded near Swift velocities. I have no idea of how many thousands of rounds have gone through it and it has been over heated most of its life. Its one of those guns that I felt I needed to sell some time ago to raise a little cash for a custom .22-.250. Damn I wish I had it back like many others. It was almost as good the day I sold it and the day I bought it although you could see throat erosion. The guy who has it refuses to sell it back to me.


          • #6
            idduckhntr, Nope not it!

            DakotaMan, Nope not it!

            CPT BRAD, You’re getting warmer!

            Mr. Reid Jones, I’ll answer your question Monday by noon. I’m going to see where this goes and who gets it right. Anyhow the truck, guns, gear, ATV and trailer is ready to go.

            Grandson Alex & Clay gone Hunting, C’YA!


            • #7
              Reid - I think jay was just joshing with you on that post about Ruger barrels wearing out faster. He should remember, though, that what comes around goes around ... karma.

              There are still unanswered questions regarding throat/bore erosion. Some complex interaction of intense heat, pressure, friction, and chemical composition of the powder, bullet, and barrel. Even blow by around a bullet - the hot gases are moving faster than the bullet. It's pretty fascinating.

              Regarding your concern with the .25-06 - you're not buying a prairie dog gun. You're buying a hunting rifle. Like everyone says, heat is the #1 enemy. Just let your barrel cool to the touch between short shot strings to maximize barrel life. By the time you wear that barrel out you should be a pretty darn good shooter. If that happens you can then have the pleasure of putting on a fine custom made barrel.


              • #8
                MLH, you say

                Regarding your concern with the .25-06 - you're not buying a prairie dog gun. You're buying a hunting rifle?

                O’Really now and how you figure that! What is in your own words a prairie dog gun! LOL!!


                • #9

                  I'll make this comment a simple one. All the guys have 'splained this subject to death. Barrel wear is directly related to heat. If you shoot any caliber hot and keep shooying it until you smell wood buring you will cook the barrel. The damage actually starts way before that point. The other guys have laid out the physics for you...

                  I've put thousands of rounds down range with a 25/06 and many of those were in a Ruger to boot. I don't shoot it or any other center fire rifle I own like I'm in a fire fight! The bores are clean and bright and I don't find throat erosion or worn rifling either.

                  Just like the engine in your car or truck, don't run it hot, keep it clean and it will last!


                  • #10
                    You are good Clay... keeping us honest. I forgot to mention the first thing we would expect to see with barrel wear... is throat erosion from the big hot bang in the very small diameter throat of the .223. It widens the throat, burns out the lands and kills the accuracy. The barrel wear actually starts from the throat and works out as the bore begins to heat check. In my case, the Swift continued to shoot pretty accurately until the rifling dissapeared because of the wear. I had the same experience on my first 25-06 barrel... throat erosion didn't stop me from hunting. I shot a coyote at about 120 yards in the morning, things seemed normal. About noon, I had one of the best opportunities of my life at three of them and emptied the magazine without touching a hair. I expected three coyotes and had NONE. I thought my scope had crapped out and tried a zero check on a tree knot. The bullet hit crossways at 25 yards. I looked down the barrel... and NO rifling. Had I been match shooting and watching the barrel erosion, I would have replaced the barrel long before that. Oh well... I'm sure that those coyotes had long fulfilling lives.


                    • #11

                      Before you get cold feet on the 25-o6 remember these guys are talking about putting tons of ammo down range before seeing throat erosion. If you shoot any small bore center fire in a controlled fashion, 3 shots and let it cool. You will have long barrel life.

                      As for the Ruger barrels, I've been shooting Ruger rifles for a long time. I have guns with barrels from all the time frames. Their rifling doesn't wear out any faster than any other company. If you abuse any companies barrel, Remington, Winchester, Browning, etc, they will wear out faster. Ruger now makes their own barrels using the hammer forging process, the same process Sako is famous for.

                      I have a friend who has a vintage Model 70 Winchester in .220 Swift. It still has the original barrel. No telling how much lead has gone down the bore over the years. It has some throat erosion and is not as accurate as it once was. Instead of one hole groups it will now cut 1/2 inch groups at 100 yds, Not bad for a 50 plus year old rifle...


                      • #12

                        I have to wonder aboout nailing 'yote at 120 yards in the morn and having a bore with no rifling in the eve...?


                        • #13
                          Where i live, NJ, shooting a centerfire rifle is illegal except at approved ranges and shooting clubs. I don't belong to such a club or range, so i don't have to worry about burning barrels out. When i go to camp, i shoot a box of shells, usually less. Any extensive shooting is rimfire or shotgun. If i lived in montana or somewhere like that, i'd shoot daily, and burn out all kinds off barrels. My point, if i have one, is most shooters won't burn barrels out. Guys that put several hundred or thousands or rounds through such rifles have to worry about that. I do not have that luxury, unfortunately.


                          • #14
                            Clay - if Reid was buying a pure prairie dog rifle, everyone would have likely recommended a different type of gun and a range of calibers. And he'd be putting a whole lot of rounds through it.

                            From what I've read he wants an all around hunting rifle that he can carry with pride. He's getting a carry rifle. My comment in no way demeans the use of the .25-06 as a prairie dog round or the effectiveness of the Ruger for that task. It's a truly great round with wide capabilities. I think it is a good choice for him. The point is, since he is primarily hunting big game with it, he shouldn't be overly concerned about barrel erosion. An if he can occasionally shoot at prairie dogs then he should. He'll become intimately acquainted with the rifle and it's capabilities - he should just be wise in how he does it.


                            • #15
                              22-250, 220 Swift, .224-308, 6mm-284, 25-06, 257 Weatherby, 264 win, 6.5-300 Weatherby, 270 Weatherby, 30-378 Weatherby, 338-378 Weatherby, all premature shoot out barrels. They all had one thing in common, what is it?
                              2nd question, if the bullet is going fstest when it is at the the muzzle, why isn't the greatest wear there?
                              yes I know that terninal velocity is about 12' from the muzzle but we're talking about barrel wear.




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