Remington

[jhjimbo]

I hope they focus on the 870s, 1100s and 700s. The shotguns are good as is but I'd like to see them adjust the design for recoil reduction such as Benelli and others have done. Recoil reduction systems really make a difference for getting on target quickly with follow-up shots.

I hope the 700 line can produce a trued action. Their previous actions required truing in order to use them for precision shooting. The bolt lugs didn't match the receiver lugs, the front of the receiver wasn't square with the barrel threads, the bolt timing is wrong so bolts stick, etc. I see no reason in this age of EDM to do anything but cut steel square and straight. If they can do that, they can compete with the knock-off Rem clone manufacturers. Rifles from Howa, Tikka and others don't have this problem.

Have you seen the new Weatherby recoil system ? Probably more for the magnums, it is honeycomb compressed at a controlled rate, then quickly expands to original shape.

[fitch270]

I hope they focus on the 870s, 1100s and 700s. The shotguns are good as is but I'd like to see them adjust the design for recoil reduction such as Benelli and others have done. Recoil reduction systems really make a difference for getting on target quickly with follow-up shots.

I hope the 700 line can produce a trued action. Their previous actions required truing in order to use them for precision shooting. The bolt lugs didn't match the receiver lugs, the front of the receiver wasn't square with the barrel threads, the bolt timing is wrong so bolts stick, etc. I see no reason in this age of EDM to do anything but cut steel square and straight. If they can do that, they can compete with the knock-off Rem clone manufacturers. Rifles from Howa, Tikka and others don't have this problem.

Despite all the woes of recent one of the bright spots coming out of Big Green had been that the actions produced were better than ever. The machining was good, how the rest of the rifle was assembled questionable.

From what I’ve read.

[Milldawg]

The last 870super mag I bought is a wonder of modern manufacturing and it’s not what they used to be. It sits and gathers dust. That’s the other reason I bought the older 870 mag awhile back.

[DakotaMan]

Have you seen the new Weatherby recoil system ? Probably more for the magnums, it is honeycomb compressed at a controlled rate, then quickly expands to original shape.

I haven't seen it but I like the idea. Sounds good.

[DakotaMan]

Despite all the woes of recent one of the bright spots coming out of Big Green had been that the actions produced were better than ever. The machining was good, how the rest of the rifle was assembled questionable.

From what I’ve read.

I really like their Rem 700 action and so do all the knock-off after market manufacturers. The factory rifles shoot well and are more than adequate for hunting. For long range precision shooting, the first thing I do with them is put them on the lathe and true them. I rarely see one that is true enough to shoot competitively. Once trued, they are as accurate as a premium action. I go by what I see in long range competition scores, not by what is written on the Internet. As a matter of fact, I'm shooting a Rem 700 action with a 30" no-taper barrel in an F-Class Open 600 yard competition this morning. If I get beat, it won't be because of my action.

[fitch270]

I really like their Rem 700 action and so do all the knock-off after market manufacturers. The factory rifles shoot well and are more than adequate for hunting. For long range precision shooting, the first thing I do with them is put them on the lathe and true them. I rarely see one that is true enough to shoot competitively. Once trued, they are as accurate as a premium action. I go by what I see in long range competition scores, not by what is written on the Internet. As a matter of fact, I'm shooting a Rem 700 action with a 30" no-taper barrel in an F-Class Open 600 yard competition this morning. If I get beat, it won't be because of my action.

Ok, but have you actually used a newer action.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...0#Post16610777

As far as believing what one reads on the internet, well I’ll let that be.

[jhjimbo]

Ok, but have you actually used a newer action.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...0#Post16610777

As far as believing what one reads on the internet, well I’ll let that be.

Llama Bob is probably one of those that messed with a Remington 700 trigger. They were designed to NOT be adjustible. So, what did all the A-holes do that tinker with things - they dug the seal material out from over the adjustment screws and made adjustments which then made them dangerous. Then they have the nerve to blame Remington.
I have and have had about a dozen Remingtons of the '60,70, 80 and 90's that had that trigger and have NEVER had a trigger issue with any of them. I always run the test on triggers (with any Manufacturer) and they NEVER failed. How do you explain that Llama Bob ??

[DakotaMan]

Ok, but have you actually used a newer action.

The newest Rem 700 actions I have been able to acquire have been a pair of short action stainless steel actions from late 2020. Newer actions have been hard to get. Those had an outstanding finish but both of them had "fit" issues.

On these two, the bolt lugs only touched the receiver lugs on the very outside of one bolt lug. This was because the outside edges on the front of the receiver lugs were rounded on the outside edge. Also, the lugs weren't aligned so that all lugs fit together on battery and on recoil.

They both also had a bolt timing issue. There was too much distance between the rear of the receiver and the bolt handle. They occasionally failed to eject fired cartridges completely when they cammed over the ejection ramp on the rear of the receiver and consequently locked up the bolt.

I had to true and flatten the edges of all lugs and re-time the bolt handles on both. This required removing the bolt handles and soldering them back on with correct timing. So far, I have encountered three actions with similar issues out of the dozens I have trued and those three were all newer than the mid-2020s. Once trued, all the Rem 700 actions I have done shoot as well as any action on the competition circuits.

My favorite Rem 700 actions come from 1970s vintage. They are solid; typically with better lug matchup. The Rem 700 action is an excellent design for keeping manufacturing cost low while providing the capability for MOA or even sub MOA accuracy for hunting applications. For those who want to achieve competition level accuracy, known adjustments can be made and a myriad of after market products can make it among the best.

I consider the factory Rem 700 action to generally be plenty high enough precision for hunting applications. The issues I discovered seemed to be limited to their last days of manufacture before the bankruptcy. Most factory 700 actions are lacking a bit in precision manufacture and require truing of the bolt and receiver lugs, truing of the front of the receiver and insertion of a thicker trued recoil lug to attain match quality precision. I also epoxy bed them to control action torque and to prevent variances in barrel harmonics from shot to shot.

The new triggers are adjustable with pull weights from about 2 1/2 to about 6 pounds and they are excellent for hunting applications. I replace all of them with Jewell or Bix N Andy triggers for long range precision shooting; most being set at 1 1/2 ounces. The lock time (the time from sear release to primer impact) is among the best on Rem 700s but I often replace the firing pin and firing pin springs with lighter/faster sets for even better lock time. This helps competition shooters minimize movement of the rifle between the time they pull the trigger and the rifle goes bang.

[fitch270]

Dakota; Since Remington shut down in Sept. 2020 you must have gotten some of the last actions to roll off the line. Your experience counters what I’ve read elsewhere.

[jhjimbo]

The newest Rem 700 actions I have been able to acquire have been a pair of short action stainless steel actions from late 2020. Newer actions have been hard to get. Those had an outstanding finish but both of them had "fit" issues.

On these two, the bolt lugs only touched the receiver lugs on the very outside of one bolt lug. This was because the outside edges on the front of the receiver lugs were rounded on the outside edge. Neither were the lugs weren't aligned so that all lugs fit together on battery and on recoil.

They both also had a bolt timing issue. There was too much distance between the rear of the receiver and the bolt handle. They occasionally failed to eject fired cartridges completely when they cammed over the ejection ramp on the rear of the receiver and consequently locked up the bolt.

I had to true and flatten the edges of all lugs and re-time the bolt handles on both. This required removing the bolt handles and soldering them back on with correct timing. So far, I have encountered three actions with similar issues out of the dozens I have trued and those three were all newer than the mid-2020s. Once trued, all the Rem 700 actions I have done shoot as well as any action on the competition circuits.

My favorite Rem 700 actions come from 1970s vintage. They are solid; typically with better lug matchup. The Rem 700 action is an excellent design for keeping manufacturing cost low while providing the capability for MOA or even sub MOA accuracy for hunting applications. For those who want to achieve competition level accuracy, known adjustments can be made and a myriad of after market products can make it among the best.

I consider the factory Rem 700 action to generally be plenty high enough precision for hunting applications. The issues I discovered seemed to be limited to their last days of manufacture before the bankruptcy. Most factory 700 actions are lacking a bit in precision manufacture and require truing of the bolt and receiver lugs, truing of the front of the receiver and insertion of a thicker trued recoil lug to attain match quality precision. I also epoxy bed them to control action torque and to prevent variances in barrel harmonics from shot to shot.

The new triggers are adjustable with pull weights from about 2 1/2 to about 6 pounds and they are excellent for hunting applications. I replace all of them with Jewell or Bix N Andy triggers for long range precision shooting; most being set at 1 1/2 ounces. The lock time (the time from sear release to primer impact) is among the best on Rem 700s but I often replace the firing pin and firing pin springs with lighter/faster sets for even better lock time. This helps competition shooters minimize movement of the rifle between the time they pull the trigger and the rifle goes bang.

Did they ever put the electronic trigger in the Remington 700 ? Amost 0 lock time.

[DakotaMan]

Did they ever put the electronic trigger in the Remington 700 ? Amost 0 lock time.

Remington did test their EtronX electronic trigger and found that it did improve precision but not enough that most shooters would pay extra for it. Remington has not yet released the EtronX because of early adopter issues common to all major technology introduction. It had no hammer or firing pin but required special bullets that didn't use primers. We may see this one day, especially for target shooting, varmint shooting and competitive shooting.

If you dry fire your rifle, you can see how much the sear and hammer action make the rifle jump in current bolt action designs. If you put the cross hairs on a distant target and dry fire, you will see the cross hair jumps off the point of aim due to this movement. We are at the point where experts can shoot a 2" group or so at 600 yards with traditional firing pin technology but I have no doubt that electronic triggers with no hammer and firing pin movement would improve that. Most hunters have no need for this level of precision but the shooting applications noted above would benefit from higher precision.

[DakotaMan]

Dakota; Since Remington shut down in Sept. 2020 you must have gotten some of the last actions to roll off the line. Your experience counters what I’ve read elsewhere.

Fitch, I suspect that the defective actions I had were among the last to be manufactured before the bankruptcy. They may even have been cleaning out the last of their inventory, including those with known defects. I bought the actions with no barrels, stocks, etc.

Please don't let my comments dissuade you from considering a Rem 700. I've bought dozens of them that were great from the 1970s until 2020. One of my favorite hunting rifles is a Rem 700 and I have had great experience with all Rem 700s up to that point in time. You can tell the new actions made on the new machinery at Remington because they have the QR Code beautifully engraved on the bottom of the receiver. Most have had a beautiful fit and finish and I can't wait for them to get production started in Georgia. American needs more of these fine rifles available at a reasonable price.

[jhjimbo]

If I remember, the new CNC were installed some 5 or more years ago. Multi million $$ investment for Remington. They made a video of them all lined up in the factory. Must have been 10 or 15 of them.

Watch the video and the following couple to see the QC involved in making a firearm.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE

[DakotaMan]

[QUOTE=jhjimbo; Watch the video and the following couple to see the QC involved in making a firearm.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for posting jimbo. I've always appreciated my Remington firearms and their long history of serving our country. That 870 was a thing of beauty. I love my 870 Wingmaster and it looks almost as good. I have eliminated all my other shotguns and have used the 870 exclusively for about 30 years now. To me it feels like an extension of my arm and I am comfortable with it. I also I like to admire it when nothing is flying. I look forward to checking out some of their newly manufactured products when they finish setting up in Georgia. I look forward to the day I don't have to true Rem 700 actions any more.

I especially enjoyed watching them making the Model 51 pistols again. I inherited one of them from my great grandfather that he bought around 1918-1919 and used it as a pocket pistol to accompany him on trucking whiskey from Chicago to his saloon in western Iowa. The cowpokes that frequented his saloon didn't accept prohibition.

[DakotaMan]

Ok, but have you actually used a newer action.

Sure Fitch, I've used several every year since I retired in 2009. I normally just buy the actions, true them, Cerakote them and custom fit all the parts. All of those custom built rifles shoot lights out. I either shoot them myself or participate with my friends as they hunt or shoot them. I hunt with a Rem 700 Sendero circa 2005 that I bought cheap because it shot 3-5 MOA (minute of angle) groups. I bedded it and it now shoots around .2 MOA. One of the defective actions mentioned above I chambered in 25 Creedmoor and shot it in F-Class Open competition (75 rounds per match) last year just to work it through its paces. It shot real well until I burned out the barrel at 1475 rounds (I shot it hot in the summer heat). The other defective action (re-worked) I mentioned is being shot by a close friend weekly in a 6mm Dasher for long range targets and 1000 yard P-Dogs. I talk to him nearly weekly to check on its performance. I now shoot another one chambered in 6mm Dasher in 600 and 1000 yard competition. I shoot too many others to bore you with here.

I've also tested, bedded and developed loads for many factory 700s that my friends own just to help them out. In most cases their new rifles have shot in the .5 MOA range or better after I finished with them (this is with factory barrels and actions). Most factory rifles I've seen with factory ammo are new rifles that shoot from 1.5 MOA groups to 10 MOA groups until I finish working on them. Of course, I don't test a lot of my friends Rem 700s that work fine as they usually don't need help on their rifles unless they have a problem with them. Most know I build custom precision rifles. I've seen and shot a lot of Rem 700s that shoot around 1 MOA or better out of the box but there are typically bedding problems with most of them.

As an example of the problems:
One factory 7mm Win Mag ($350 Walmart ADL) shot 10" groups at 100 yards because of the cheap Tupperware stock with poor bedding. After epoxy/pillar bedding, it shot .4 MOA groups at 500 yards with factory ammo. He just got a nice 10 point elk with it two weeks ago.

Another factory .308 Long Range model with heavy barrel shot 3 .5 MOA groups when new. After bedding and load development it shot in the .1 MOA range. That's right... all the bullets go through the same tiny hole.

I bought a .243 ADL in 2000 for $400 at Walmart. The best I could do with it was 1.5 MOA after load development and bedding. I finally took the barrel off and threw it away. I trued the action and did a custom build with it in 6mm Creedmoor. It now shoots in the .2 MOA range out to 1000 yards.

In 2019, I helped a good friend with his factory new LR .338 Lapua. It started out at 2 MOA but after bedding, working up a load and putting a different muzzle brake on it, it now shoots in the .1 MOA range... quite a very long range rifle indeed.

I won't bore you with more but suffice it to say, I pull the trigger on a lot of Rem 700s (and have for 25years) and like them. I tell everyone to epoxy bed them as I have never seen one shoot worse with bedding and I've seen a LOT of them shoot remarkably well once bedded. If I were Remington, I'd make a line where they pillar bed the stock, true the action and put a dab of epoxy bedding behind the recoil lug at the factory. The added cost would be under $50 and they couldn't make enough of them in spite of New York laws.