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  • #16
    There ain't no grizzly here and I'll probably never hunt where they are. The 6.5 CM is adequate for my needs. Same can be said of my .30 caliber rifles too.

    Comment


    • #17
      Q. What can a 6.5 CM do that my .25-06 can't do?
      A. Nothing!
      Q. Since I already have the rifle, dies, a worked up load, components, and like the .25-06, why in blue hell would I want to jump out and buy a new Superduper Wizbanger, just because the gun writers are nuts about it?
      A. I wouldn't.
      Also, I will debate all day, and all night, if necessary, that either the 6.5 CM or the .25-06 are adequate for elk. Marginal, at best, under ideal conditions and the right range, but when was the last time anybody killed an elk under ideal conditions?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by crm3006 View Post
        Q. What can a 6.5 CM do that my .25-06 can't do?
        A. Nothing!
        Q. Since I already have the rifle, dies, a worked up load, components, and like the .25-06, why in blue hell would I want to jump out and buy a new Superduper Wizbanger, just because the gun writers are nuts about it?
        A. I wouldn't.
        Also, I will debate all day, and all night, if necessary, that either the 6.5 CM or the .25-06 are adequate for elk. Marginal, at best, under ideal conditions and the right range, but when was the last time anybody killed an elk under ideal conditions?
        No where and at no time have I seen anyone say replace your rifle with one in 6.5 CM. If you don't want one then don't get one, simple as that. Marketing happens with most items these days and it shouldn't make you angry. The cartridge was introduced in 2007 and is widely accepted, no amount of vitriol will change that.

        Same as what I said about grizzly, there ain't no elk in my woods. The closest is in Kentucky, two states away. If hunting them with the 6.5 CM, I'd just use heavier bullets and only shoot at reasonable ranges. Remember, downrange, the Creedmoor is almost identical to the 6.5x55 Swede, a proven performer on larger game.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by PigHunter View Post

          No where and at no time have I seen anyone say replace your rifle with one in 6.5 CM. If you don't want one then don't get one, simple as that. Marketing happens with most items these days and it shouldn't make you angry. The cartridge was introduced in 2007 and is widely accepted, no amount of vitriol will change that.

          Same as what I said about grizzly, there ain't no elk in my woods. The closest is in Kentucky, two states away. If hunting them with the 6.5 CM, I'd just use heavier bullets and only shoot at reasonable ranges. Remember, downrange, the Creedmoor is almost identical to the 6.5x55 Swede, a proven performer on larger game.
          The Swede loads to at least 160gr that I know of. I don't think the Creed can load that heavy.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by jhjimbo View Post

            The Swede loads to at least 160gr that I know of. I don't think the Creed can load that heavy.
            Had this come up before. Yes, the 160gr can be loaded in the 6,5 CM to as fast as 2500 fps. Check your Hornady manual. It's faster than the Swede at recommended pressures.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by PigHunter View Post

              Had this come up before. Yes, the 160gr can be loaded in the 6,5 CM to as fast as 2500 fps. Check your Hornady manual. It's faster than the Swede at recommended pressures.
              I took a quick look and only saw from 85gr to. 147gr. No heavy 160gr bullets. Maybe you can find one ? I would not shoot a big animal with a 147gr when 160gr are available.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by jhjimbo View Post

                I took a quick look and only saw from 85gr to. 147gr. No heavy 160gr bullets. Maybe you can find one ? I would not shoot a big animal with a 147gr when 160gr are available.
                From the Hornady load manual, 10th Ed.

                Click image for larger version

Name:	Hornady 10th Ed Creedmoor 160.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	234.2 KB
ID:	774373

                Here's some heavy factory loads from Midway USA:

                Sellier & Bellot - 156gr SP, 2444 fps
                Norma Ammunition - 156gr SP, 2850 fps (I think this must be wrong)
                Berger - 156gr HP, 2680 fps

                Here's some heavy bullets for hand loads and selected reviews from Midway USA

                Woodleigh Bullets - 160gr
                "Absolute Texas hog destroyer! Really like this bullet design and construction. Burning them out of my 6.5CM @ 2550 using H4350 w/ 20" barrel. No issues with pressure or stabilization!"

                Hornady Interlock - 160gr
                "Favorite hog bullet (so far) for hogs using my 6.5CM 20" BA Barrel 1:8TR Getting 2505FPS using 42.2gr of IMR4350."

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by PigHunter View Post

                  From the Hornady load manual, 10th Ed.

                  Click image for larger version

Name:	Hornady 10th Ed Creedmoor 160.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	234.2 KB
ID:	774373

                  Here's some heavy factory loads from Midway USA:

                  Sellier & Bellot - 156gr SP, 2444 fps
                  Norma Ammunition - 156gr SP, 2850 fps (I think this must be wrong)
                  Berger - 156gr HP, 2680 fps

                  Here's some heavy bullets for hand loads and selected reviews from Midway USA

                  Woodleigh Bullets - 160gr
                  "Absolute Texas hog destroyer! Really like this bullet design and construction. Burning them out of my 6.5CM @ 2550 using H4350 w/ 20" barrel. No issues with pressure or stabilization!"

                  Hornady Interlock - 160gr
                  "Favorite hog bullet (so far) for hogs using my 6.5CM 20" BA Barrel 1:8TR Getting 2505FPS using 42.2gr of IMR4350."
                  I have the 160gr shown.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by jhjimbo View Post

                    I have the 160gr shown.
                    What velocity do you get with that 160 using your handload? Have you tried it on deer and if so, how well did it do?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by FirstBubba View Post
                      "... They all kill game (except for grizzleys) if the game is standing still at 50 yards. ..."

                      They will kill grizzly too. Just don't expect a griz to "drop at the shot"!
                      May take a bit for the desired result to kick in! LOL!
                      Check for tall, easily climbable, convenient trees nearby before attempting such heroics! 😀!
                      That is the common expectation Bubba. However, after shooting a 25-06 AI for many years and LOTS of game, I became familiar with a really strange "shock" effect that it had. The .257 Weatherby is similar. Many years ago, I did side-by-side comparisons between the 100g 25-06 AI and the 150g .308. At 100 yards, the .308 would penetrate the back chest cavity without knocking a deer down and I tracked one deer almost a quarter of a mile. The same shot with the 25-06 AI killed every deer on impact. The longest penetration I got with a .308 on big bucks was about 3 feet while the 25-06 Hornady Interlock went 5 feet or more. It was common to recover .308 bullets from game while I have only recovered two 25-06 bullets after hundreds of incidents. I won't tell you about my experience shooting running deer and antelope with both. Suffice it to say that I quickly quit using the .308 for running game.

                      The new 131g-135g .257 bullets have not been tested on grizzly yet but at the speed they travel, I would expect them to have a similar effect, even on a grizzly. 25 caliber bullets have amazing penetration capability. There is no doubt, if I hunt grizzly, I'll use my .375 H&H though and this will remain a theoretical quandary for me.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Dakotaman, I've suspected that about bullet velocities ever since I started taking game with the .45-70 Gov. Sure, it leaves a big hole but doesn't seem to provide as much shock as lighter / faster bullets.

                        Having a rifle easily capable of taking grizzly is just not needed in most of the lower 48.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by jhjimbo View Post

                          I took a quick look and only saw from 85gr to. 147gr. No heavy 160gr bullets. Maybe you can find one ? I would not shoot a big animal with a 147gr when 160gr are available.
                          There are numerous 153.5g to 160g bullets for the 6.5 re-loader and they handload quite well. I shoot the Hornady ELD 147 in 6.5 CM (as well as 130g and 140g bullets). It is a phenomenal hunting bullet and accurate enough that I see it used in long range competition. I'd have no doubts about shooting deer with it at 500 yards. Remember, the 6.5mm bullet is capable of penetrating better than the .308 bullet (that's what made the Swede famous on moose) and lighter weight bullets do very well on deer sized game. The Berger 153.5g bullet is phenomenal at 1000 yards for target shooting.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by PigHunter View Post
                            Dakotaman, I've suspected that about bullet velocities ever since I started taking game with the .45-70 Gov. Sure, it leaves a big hole but doesn't seem to provide as much shock as lighter / faster bullets.

                            Having a rifle easily capable of taking grizzly is just not needed in most of the lower 48.
                            I've had experience with both the big, slow, snail's pace slugs and the little zipper, whiz bang speedsters too.

                            I've had deer drop in their tracks and make it quite a distance with both type rounds.

                            What I HAVE noticed is the big, fat, slow slug will bore a hole and leave little blood shot meat.
                            Those little whizzers blow up and can turn a smallish whitetail into a big blood blister.
                            I prefer the big, slow slugs ... but I do like the "whizzers" too.
                            So, I've kinda gone in betwixt.
                            My 6.8mm uses a light bullet but doesn't seem to just blow deer up.

                            I'm happy.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by DakotaMan View Post

                              That is the common expectation Bubba. However, after shooting a 25-06 AI for many years and LOTS of game, I became familiar with a really strange "shock" effect that it had. The .257 Weatherby is similar. Many years ago, I did side-by-side comparisons between the 100g 25-06 AI and the 150g .308. At 100 yards, the .308 would penetrate the back chest cavity without knocking a deer down and I tracked one deer almost a quarter of a mile. The same shot with the 25-06 AI killed every deer on impact. The longest penetration I got with a .308 on big bucks was about 3 feet while the 25-06 Hornady Interlock went 5 feet or more. It was common to recover .308 bullets from game while I have only recovered two 25-06 bullets after hundreds of incidents. I won't tell you about my experience shooting running deer and antelope with both. Suffice it to say that I quickly quit using the .308 for running game.

                              The new 131g-135g .257 bullets have not been tested on grizzly yet but at the speed they travel, I would expect them to have a similar effect, even on a grizzly. 25 caliber bullets have amazing penetration capability. There is no doubt, if I hunt grizzly, I'll use my .375 H&H though and this will remain a theoretical quandary for me.
                              Some soldiers with survivable GSW die from shock first. Shock causes each organ system to shut down and death is not far behind if not treated immediately.
                              Look at the results of ballistic gelatin - the straight through narrow channels will not impart much shock factor. Look at the high velocity ones where the channel is as wide as it is long. There, the projectile is departing shock factor to the surrounding tissue.
                              The 5.56 bullet was designed for max shock factor. Shoot a person in the chest and find the projectile down the arm by the wrist. That is shock.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by crm3006 View Post
                                Q. What can a 6.5 CM do that my .25-06 can't do?
                                A. Nothing!
                                Q. Since I already have the rifle, dies, a worked up load, components, and like the .25-06, why in blue hell would I want to jump out and buy a new Superduper Wizbanger, just because the gun writers are nuts about it?
                                A. I wouldn't.
                                Also, I will debate all day, and all night, if necessary, that either the 6.5 CM or the .25-06 are adequate for elk. Marginal, at best, under ideal conditions and the right range, but when was the last time anybody killed an elk under ideal conditions?
                                I shoot both the 6.5 CM and the 25-06. If I had to use only one or the other, it would be the 25-06. There is no substitute for speed and light recoil; especially now that we have 131g-135g bullets for hunting larger game.

                                Comment

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