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  • #16
    Originally posted by dewman View Post
    Funny you brought this up.😉 Couple of ideas.
    1. Don't make 20 different models with a dozen reticles each. Stay in your wheelhouse and focus on making 2 or 3 models and make them the best you possibly can.
    2. Do not try to compete price wise with China, they have slaves, we have Biden. 3. Let China make the cheap stuff so after shooters have a couple crap out on them they get smart and invest in you for the quality thus becoming loyal lifelong fans.(and customers).
    4. For anyone spending under $400 today I say flip a coin, roll the dice, and play Russian roulette going forward.
    5. Finally, to anyone who wants to jump in and say their $50 scope is all they could ever want. Your scope is alive and it is just waiting to screw you at the worst possible time in order to get the most satisfaction from your pitiful, humiliating, anguish. You have been warned!
    Thanks FB.👍🏻 Stay safe.
    The new models and dozens of recticles are to dazzle dazzle new shooters not guys like us.

    Comment


    • #17
      Truth be told there are probably only a hand full of scope manufacturers who then private label for others. Many do not even make all the parts for the scope. For example Leupold does not make it's own lenses. Some mfg. use plastic lenses instead of glass.
      The consumer will never know who makes what.

      Comment


      • #18
        Who makes the part is irrelevant. Outsourcing is the norm. It's in the assembly where quality is determined and the components are given the thumbs up/down. Assembly is where the first and final quality control checks are performed. Inferior parts can be rejected (or approved) and its in the fit and finishing done in assembly that make or break the finished product. And the reputation of the name on the label.

        Comment


        • #19
          Their warranty is a big reason I use a lot of Vortex scopes. It allows me to buy a great scope at half the price. I have almost a dozen Vortex scopes and have used most of them heavily for over a decade. Most are used for p-dog and target shooting out beyond 1,000 yards. Several of my hunting rifles use them too where I will have potential for long range shots. Their bullet proof warranty and phenomenal customer service allow me to have 100% confidence in purchasing a used scope on ebay.

          I have seen two actual failures with a Vortex scope. One was over 10 years ago with a recall over a broken crosshair on their lowest cheap model, the Crossfire. There was much online news to track on this and they quickly changed the design to use an etched reticle like all their other scopes and repaired all failures FAST. Another was when I purchased a $1,200 scope used on ebay for $500. I found that the scope was damaged by the previous owner who apparently tightened the scope rings to the point where the tube was gouged and crushed. This prevented the scope from holding zero and tracking right.

          I called Vortex and they said "No problem, send it in and we will get it fixed fast". I said, "I'm leaving for an elk hunt in the morning and will be on the road for three days getting there. I really want to use the scope in that hunt". They said "No problem. Overnight it to us and we will get on it instantly. We can ship it to a post office on your route the same way. I got a call at 10:00 the next morning. They said "We just received it. It is damaged beyond repair with a crushed tube... a very rare occurrence. We are ready to ship you a new replacement. We just need to know where you are on your route so we can ship overnight delivery. It arrived the next morning just as planned. I tested it for a day at hunting altitude at all ranges from 100 to 1,000 yards and it shot at .3 MOA at all ranges (the limit of the rifle/load). It is a great scope.

          Out of curiosity, I placed the same service call with Nightforce (who makes a great scope). They had lots of warranty questions and upon finding that I was not the original owner, they said $650 to inspect the scope, repairs anywhere from $650 to $2,000 if repairs are possible and $2,250 for replacement. I will note that Nightforce has repaired a jammed zero stop for free when one of my NSX scopes failed and they changed the scope design to avoid that problem. I also placed a similar service call with Bushnell and they offered to sell me a comparable scope at a slightly discounted price. I could find the same scope on sale at a lower price at Optics Planet.

          I've seen quite a few adverse advertising comments regarding Vortex warranty on blogs, most likely from devious competing scope salesmen and true snobs that have likely never owned one. They say that the warranty is required because so many scopes fail. No failure rates are ever referenced and most such comments seem to be from people who have never owned a Vortex.

          I bought all my Vortex scopes used and none have failed me other than the damaged one above. I've also bought about a dozen to install on friend's rifles I've built for long range precision. Neither they nor I have had any problems with Vortex scopes and we can all hit 1,000 yard prairie dogs just as well with them as with any scope in the world. I'm shooting a Vortex Golden Eagle in 600 yard F-Class open competition because it helps me WIN. However, my buddy shoots a $3,500 Nightforce and he wins at times too. There are lots of great scopes out there, just none at the Vortex price point and I find their reliability to be at or better than Leupold scopes I've depended on my whole life.

          If you haven't tried Vortex scopes, snag a used one and see what you think. You don't have to worrry about reliability on ebay and aaoptics.com sells some of ther refurbished scopes so check them out too. They all have the same lifetime, transferable warranty as a new scope from Bass Pro. I like the Crossfire Rimfire on .22 LR rifles and the Viper PST for serious long range shooting out to about a mile. Of course, I have been exceptionally happy with the Golden Eagle for competitive target shooting at 100 to 1,000 yards. The Diamondback line compares with the VX3 line from Leupold and is a good light weight everyday hunting scope.

          Comment


          • #20
            I won’t quote your entire post Dakota but since I’m likely the one who triggered it figured I’d respond a bit.



            ”I've seen quite a few adverse advertising comments regarding Vortex warranty on blogs, most likely from devious competing scope salesmen and true snobs that have likely never owned one. ”

            I’ve owned just three Vortex products:

            Diamondback 2-7x35 (Philippines) that resides on an in-line muzzleloader and seems to be a good fit.

            Diamondback 10x42 Binos bought cheap from Cabela’s for about 1/2 msrp. Gave them to my FiL before our elk trip and replaced them with Meopta Meopro 8x42’s.

            Crossfire II 3-9x40. (China) Sold this one to Kittery Trading Post on a visit there. Didn’t have an issue but was disappointing compared to the Bushnell Legend Ultra HD 3-9x40 SF I already had.

            No optics snob here but find it ironic that your post comes across like a Vortex shill. Glass houses and all.


            “It allows me to buy a great scope at half the price.”
            ”Their bullet proof warranty and phenomenal customer service allow me to have 100% confidence in purchasing a used scope on ebay.”

            Won’t argue that this isn’t true but the question is if the scopes, warranty and CS are that good then why does their resale value drop so much compared to other Brands?




            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by fitch270 View Post
              "Won’t argue that this isn’t true but the question is if the scopes, warranty and CS are that good then why does their resale value drop so much compared to other Brands"?
              Sorry if I seem like a homer for Vortex scopes Fitch. I've not tried Vortex range finders, binoculars, spotting scopes, etc. so I can't comment on them one way or the other. I'm not selling their scopes nor do I have any motivation to praise them other than that I have been HIGHLY satisfied with what I got for the price and I consider them to be the highest value in scopes based on my personal experience.

              That doesn't mean that every model in their line is the best scope made on the planet. They simply give you a good scope for the price you pay. Their bottom of the line Crossfire is not a great scope. It is just a better scope for $150 than you will find for that price elsewhere when you consider the parallax control for accuracy and their solid aluminum durability. Most scopes in that price range have plastic components while the Crossfire is aluminum throughout, even the turret caps. If you compare the Crossfire to a Leupold VX3 or even a Vortex Viper, it loses every time. It is still one of the most accurate $150 scopes for a .22LR and of course I plan to use it often for the rest of my life. It is pretty similar to the Leupold Freedom selling for twice the price ($300).

              I spent a day doing a side-by-side comparison of a Diamondback (selling for $200 at the time) to comparable scopes for my nephew . It compared most closely to the Leupold VX3 that sold for $450 at the time. He purchased the Diamondback and we tested it for precision. It shot the same great group sizes that the Leupold did at all ranges. That is what I consider value.

              I shot a $2,250 Nightforce NSX in competition until the Vortex Golden Eagle came out. I bought a used Golden Eagle for $1,100 (retail $1,400 at the time) that gives me higher scores. That is value. That doesn't mean the NSX isn't a great scope. I just get more for less for good value on my spending.

              I used to feel that Leupold was a high value scope too and that drove my purchases until Vortex came on the scene. I still place a pretty high value on Leupolds but their prices have gone up while their scopes at every level are now similar to a lot of competitors.

              As to why used prices on scopes are so low, I can only guess that the following are factors:

              1. Most people bidding on scopes don't understand the Vortex warranty and fear high risk in their purchase because they don't have the brand recognition yet.

              2. Used products usually sell from 1/10th to 1/2 of new product retail pricing, especially on scopes where buyers are cautious of buying someone else's problem and a sizable amount of money is involved.

              3. I haven't seen that used Vortex scope prices are much lower relative to other scopes on average. You may see a given brand selling for a higher used price but for each of those, you might also find one selling for less.

              4. I have seen the prices of refurbished Vortex scopes go up consistently over the years. These are the refurb scopes that are sold by aaoptics.com or were sold by the old Gander Mountain's bargain cave.

              I'd actually like to keep the Vortex value a secret as I'd prefer not paying more for my scopes.
              Last edited by DakotaMan; 05-26-2022, 02:33 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                No apology necessary, was more an observation than criticism per say.


                I still have to disagree with you about the Crossfire II.

                The Bushnell Legend UHD I referenced has been used on two different CZ 455’s that have been used for an indoor offhand .22 league the past five years. Two years on my rifle and the past three when I “upgraded” and moved it over to my wife’s new rifle. Over 100 matches shot and close to 5000 rounds through it. Not used hard but a lot of traveling in a cheap soft case. No issues with the scope. Parallax goes down to 10 yards which is a necessity at 50’. I much prefer the slightly finer duplex reticle of the Bushnell as well the clarity and brightness of the glass. I also think the matte finish is superior. It looks more durable like a baked on powder coat than the chalky thin spray paint like finish of the Crossfire.

                The Bushnell has been so good we bought one for my wife’s sister two years ago, she bought an identical 455 to my wife’s and shoots league with us. 80 matches no problems.

                I also have a Hawke Endurance 3-12x44 sf that I paid $169 for. Not apples to apples exactly but I’d buy another Hawke before a Crossfire as well.


                Comment


                • #23
                  There is a website called expert voice if you are a veteran you register and take these silly product quizzes to unlock discounts. Vortex is having a pretty good memorial day sale I just found the new venom for 349.99 but i though it was a little much for my .22. Found viper hst 4-16x44 for 424 no luck on eBay.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by fitch270 View Post
                    The Bushnell Legend UHD...

                    I also have a Hawke Endurance 3-12x44 sf that I paid $169 for. Not apples to apples exactly but I’d buy another Hawke before a Crossfire as well.
                    Fitch, I value your feedback on these and trust that the Vortex Crossfire is not the only scope in this low-end rimfire competition. I'm happy to hear that you have had good experience with both of these scopes. I do wonder whether you are comparing a modern 2022 model of the Crossfire. These cheap scopes started out poorly but they have been improved as time passed. Mine, that I just recently bought, has very good fit and finish. It does not have a parallax control knob though as one is not required for less than 14X magnification if the manufacturer focuses the image on the same plane as the reticle. I'm always happy to consider known good alternatives and appreciate your feedback.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Funny, I was wondering what you’ve used lately in comparison.

                      I know I sold the scope to KTP late summer of ‘19 and had only had it for about a year. Bought it from Cabela’s as well when it was discounted to about $125. KTP offered me $80 and I was fine with that.

                      Seems we’ve circled back to the original point of the thread. Brand loyalty is fine until companies start riding on their reputation or the competition does better. I try to pick up scopes with good reputations when they’re marked way down but occasionally buy based on specific features I’m looking for. The market has changed drastically from 20 or even 10 years ago, it’s tough to keep up.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Anyone else missing the days when our lookers 👀made us deadly with open sights and we could varmint hunt with an aperature (peep sights) ?
                        Last edited by dewman; 05-27-2022, 11:26 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by dewman View Post
                          Anyone else missing the days when our lookers 👀made us deadly with open sights and we could varmint hunt with an aperature (peep sights) ?
                          Yes it just dawned on me this year that my pistol sights are not as crisp and clear as they used to be. So might I as well start saving for an optics cut slide soon.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by dewman View Post
                            Anyone else missing the days when our lookers 👀made us deadly with open sights and we could varmint hunt with an aperature (peep sights) ?
                            I sure do !! I spent the summer of 1975 working for my dad to buy a deer rifle, a Remington 760 in 270. I used it that fall open sights because I could not afford a scope. The Stevens 22 didn’t even have a way to mount a scope on it and it killed many foxes , groundhogs and squirrels . However at 62 years old I covet glass ! Btw excellent first post on this subject!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              My grampa (1893-1974), bless his heart, shot a deer at near 400 yards with an iron sight .30-30! ...in his late 60's!!!
                              The man was phenomenal with a rifle or shotgun either.
                              I've still got a couple of rifles with iron sights.
                              Iron sights is a skill set we need to keep active.....but these days, my rear sight has a fuzzy worm laying across the top of it! 😜

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I should be wicked with open sights. Every time I use them I have 4 front sights and a rear that’s 7” across. But when I shoot there’s never a hole to tell me where I hit. For all I know some of those bullets are still flying around out there somewhere.

                                Comment

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